Netflix stops charging customers who never watch • Hacker News Board

Re: Netflix stops charging customers who never watch

#71

Post by m463 » Sat, May 23, 2020, 4:49 AM UTC

raiyu wrote: post #12

I always wonder when a company does this if it is completely altruistic or if something else is going on behind the scenes. Maybe notifying customers gets them to reactivate, maybe if they resubscribe later they can charge more, maybe it’s better for financial reporting and projecting subscriber counts. On the other hand it could just be a rare moment of a company doing right by the customer.

It could just be the golden rule.

It could be canny business sense.

It could be both.

in a similar vein, Ikea umbrellas are discounted when it rains.

Re: Netflix stops charging customers who never watch

#72

Post by jackson1442 » Sat, May 23, 2020, 4:56 AM UTC

sillysaurusx wrote: post #66

spiralganglion wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do this at my company, and it is purely for altruistic reasons. If people aren't happily making good use of my service, I don't want their money. That's the entire calculus. Netflix is vastly bigger, granted, so who knows what machinations are afoot for them. But it is certainly believable to me that a company could choose to do something explicitly anti-greedy.

If someone is giving you their money, how do you know they don't want to use your service? Many people give money to ensure that a service is available when they need it.

> Many people give money to ensure that a service is available when they need it.

Netflix, as a service, takes ~10 minutes to set up. This might be the case for a software suite like CC, where you might need to download a massive amount of data, or other software where you pay annually or enter into some kind of contract, but Netflix is strictly monthly and easy to sign up for by design.

Re: Netflix stops charging customers who never watch

#73

Post by fyfy18 » Sat, May 23, 2020, 4:57 AM UTC

kylecazar wrote: post #27

cortesoft wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon did this for me back in 2005 when they introduced Prime. I used the free trial for an order (to get it in two days), but then didn't order anything else and forgot to cancel. They sent me an email that they weren't going to charge me because I hadn't used it, but I was free to sign up in the future if I decided I wanted it. It was so refreshing, it made me a lifelong customer.

On a related note -- Audible free trial seems.. offered cyclically? I seem to sign up every year or so, spend my credits, and cancel. They keep offering it though, and now I'm considering buying (as I enjoy the medium, turns out), so I suppose it worked.

Prime does that for me too, recently it has changed from free to one-week-for-£1 now though. The great thing is if you forget to cancel at the end of the trial and they charge you, they will refund you if you haven't placed any orders in that billing period.

Re: Netflix stops charging customers who never watch

#74

Post by cocochanel » Sat, May 23, 2020, 4:57 AM UTC

goodside wrote: post #55

Years ago, I heard of a dating site doing the opposite of this. They normally sent periodic digests and newsletters to their users to try to increase engagement, but if a user went a certain number of months without logging into their account, but still allowed monthly fees to be charged, they were labeled as a “sleeping giant” in the database. Once in this state, they would not be contacted by the site for any reaso…

Just a few weeks ago I realized I was paying for Xbox Live without having played it for 8 years. I didn't even remember the password.

Re: Netflix stops charging customers who never watch

#75

Post by function_seven » Sat, May 23, 2020, 4:57 AM UTC

sillysaurusx wrote: post #66

spiralganglion wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do this at my company, and it is purely for altruistic reasons. If people aren't happily making good use of my service, I don't want their money. That's the entire calculus. Netflix is vastly bigger, granted, so who knows what machinations are afoot for them. But it is certainly believable to me that a company could choose to do something explicitly anti-greedy.

If someone is giving you their money, how do you know they don't want to use your service? Many people give money to ensure that a service is available when they need it.

I’m Netflix’s case, aren’t they notifying the inactive users first, telling them that they’ll be canceled unless they request otherwise?

That seems like the right way to go.

Re: Netflix stops charging customers who never watch

#76

Post by ilaksh » Sat, May 23, 2020, 4:59 AM UTC

notadog wrote: post #4

notadog wrote: post #2

> Netflix says it will now start to cancel accounts that have watched nothing in more than a year, but have still been paying subscription fees. > Netflix said less than half a percent of its user-base falls into that category. > Almost 16 million people created accounts in the first three months of the year, nearly double the new sign-ups it saw in the final months of 2019.

With 182.8 million subscribers in the first quarter of 2020, that means that less than 914,000 accounts have watched nothing in the past year.

Not sure I believe that. Even if it's true, it means they include everyone who watched a _single_ thing.

I feel like they are doing the minimum change necessary to try to reduce legal problems. They have actually probably had a lot of people try to sue them for charging them for a service they have not used for months and months, when they forget about it and then notice the charges.

Re: Netflix stops charging customers who never watch

#77

Post by ganstyles » Sat, May 23, 2020, 5:04 AM UTC

goodside wrote: post #55

Years ago, I heard of a dating site doing the opposite of this. They normally sent periodic digests and newsletters to their users to try to increase engagement, but if a user went a certain number of months without logging into their account, but still allowed monthly fees to be charged, they were labeled as a “sleeping giant” in the database. Once in this state, they would not be contacted by the site for any reaso…

The Economist did this to me. $5/mo and then auto renewed at something like $250/yr. All my credit cards are just auto pay full balance every month, and I don't check them as often as I should. Noticed the charge last month, found out they had been charging me for years for their digital subscription.

Re: Netflix stops charging customers who never watch

#78

Post by goodside » Sat, May 23, 2020, 5:05 AM UTC

bsanr2 wrote: post #67

mehrdadn wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Strictly losing money with no upside in the future is in violation of the "duty of loyalty" that all corporate officers have toward shareholders. I'm pretty sure that's just the absurd HN take on the "duty of loyalty", not an actual fact. Also, if you absolutely need a pessimistic reason, I imagine it would avoid headaches with customers complaining (regardless of who's right).

This. If someone is paying for your service and not using it, perhaps they have an inaccurate idea of what your service (and their payments) actually entail. If that's the case, then you have a customer who's going to come to you eventually to figure out what the hell they've been paying you for all this time, and/or in need of a particularly expensive crash training course (because it's coming out of nowhere). Bette…

If I sign up for a gym membership and then don’t show up for months on end, I don’t feel like I’ve been swindled — I knew that’s how it works when I signed up. I’m not confused about what a gym membership is for or why I’m paying for it. I might still never cancel because I don’t want to admit how lazy I am, so each instance of me considering the wasted money ends with me thinking, “I really should get to the gym more. Maybe next week.”

This same dynamic plays out with any service that sells you long-term self-improvement but is burdensome to use. Exercise tracking apps, diet tracking apps, health-conscious meal kits, subscription lessons for music or foreign languages, etc. There are shadier examples for sure, but it’s not always cut-and-dry evil.

Re: Netflix stops charging customers who never watch

#79

Post by karatestomp » Sat, May 23, 2020, 5:12 AM UTC

raiyu wrote: post #12

I always wonder when a company does this if it is completely altruistic or if something else is going on behind the scenes. Maybe notifying customers gets them to reactivate, maybe if they resubscribe later they can charge more, maybe it’s better for financial reporting and projecting subscriber counts. On the other hand it could just be a rare moment of a company doing right by the customer.

It’s softer than a full cancellation, I bet. Cancellations were probably going the wrong way and this lets people “go inactive” without cancelling—coming back is just opening Netflix and starting a video, rather than re-subscribing. They want you not to have a reason to unsubscribe.

Re: Netflix stops charging customers who never watch

#80

Post by nodesocket » Sat, May 23, 2020, 5:14 AM UTC

If you don't follow you finances and continue to pay Netflix for a year of service without use, I personally don't think they have any obligation to cancel your account. As somebody who has run SaaS services and seen countless baseless e-mails (even worse chargebacks) come in from users who "forgot" to cancel service and then were irate about it, this doesn't help the customer "entitlement" problem I see. Let me explain what I mean in terms of customer "entitlement". A few of my friends will go out of their way to call and complain to companies for mistakes they themselve make, demanding refunds, discounts, reward points, and often they get compensation. As a business owner, this sort of behavior really infuriates me. These types of users are taking advantage of situations because of their own failing, and thus are now blaming the companies expecting something in return.