Shopify Goes Digital by Default • Hacker News Board

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#71

Post by MattGaiser » Thu, May 21, 2020, 4:25 PM UTC

testfoobar wrote: post #41

How does corporate security handle permanent work-from-home? It seems that there would be vastly more risks added. E.g. When Joe Employee walks into the office, we know it is him and what he does and where he works. At home, Joe Employee might have a friend who looks over his shoulder at the project launch document he is completing, at the financials that are being submitted to the CFO.

> How does corporate security handle permanent work-from-home? It seems that there would be vastly more risks added.

Do they handle it? A heck of a lot of companies are using nothing more than remote desktop from personal machines right now.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#72

Post by bjt » Thu, May 21, 2020, 4:25 PM UTC

tachyonbeam wrote: post #35

godzillabrennus wrote: post #26

Anyone else think these companies will pull a Yahoo and undo this policy after the pandemic?

It's possible. Lots of people don't like working remotely. They might lose a lot of valuable employees. I suppose over time they might also attract people who prefer working from home exclusively, but they would be losing many older employees with valuable knowledge. One way or another, there's going to be some kind of pushback. Many people threatening to quit, many actually quitting. The cynical part of me thinks th…

In my experience, team effectiveness in different remote vs in-office scenarios plays out like this:

Most effective - All of the team physically together in the same space.

2nd most effective - All of the team remote.

Least effective - A mix of in-office and remote team members.

Most companies that try out remote work start with the least effective option (the mix). I don't know enough details of Yahoo's attempt to say if that's what they did, but I expect so.

The 100% remote option can save some office space cost, but some of that gets eaten up by increased travel. Even 100% remote teams can greatly benefit from getting together sometimes.

But one less-appreciated possibility opened up by 100% remote is the ability to draw talent from a much larger geographic area. We had engineers from all over North and South America. On balance, I think that makes it easier to retain older employees with valuable knowledge, who might want to have a house in the suburbs in a non-coastal state, instead of limiting your hiring pool to people willing to tolerate the congestion and cost of living in a big city.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#73

Post by kylestlb » Thu, May 21, 2020, 4:26 PM UTC

clivestaples wrote: post #27

Sometimes I wonder how long "permanent" will be for these decisions. Off topic, but if the permanent work-from-home trend continues, I cannot imagine what is going to happen to commercial real estate. Convert to residential? Is this equilibrium needed for overheated housing markets?

I have been crowing about this for years now. WFH by default could easily relieve pressure from the housing market at least in places where there are lots of people who have a job where they can WFH.

I would absolutely live 2 hours from an office if I only had to go in once every week or two. I'd live further if it was once a month.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#74

Post by alexbanks » Thu, May 21, 2020, 4:27 PM UTC

MattGaiser wrote: post #62

I am curious about the sustainability of work from home for truly team-based work. I get to develop features independently, so if I am given the spec, I have no need to speak to anyone for the rest of the day except for a couple messages with QA. For me, it is great. But I am essentially a microservice with defined inputs and outputs. For the people who actually work in teams (rather than me who is part of a team but…

The things you're describing don't go away with a remote team. It's not like going remote means all your employees just never talk to eachother in favor of working independently. It just means you use technology to solve in-person problems rather than being in person.

I would argue it's no more miserable, in fact far less, than having to A.) Commute, B.) Sit in a conference room instead of my own home, C.) Let people walk over to my desk whenever they want and interrupt me.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#75

Post by eswat » Thu, May 21, 2020, 4:27 PM UTC

emerongi wrote: post #15

GhostVII wrote: post #11

I really hope this doesn't become a bigger trend. Shopify was a company I was seriously considering working at in the future, but this would probably disqualify them. Working from home once a week sounds great to me, but doing it full time would drive me insane. Virtual meetings are awful for me, and you miss out on so much of the discussion that happens outside of the meeting - I think most of the important discussi…

It's possible there will be a shift from offices dedicated to a certain company to offices where anyone can pop in. You still get the social experience, although you do lose the ability to have in-person meetings with your actual coworkers. The upside is that people get more freedom.

Yup. It's "digital by default" not "digital at all costs".

Seems they'll keep their current offices but reformated as spaces for people that really want to work amongst each other physically, instead of expecting the majority of workers to come in every day.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#76

Post by peruvian » Thu, May 21, 2020, 4:27 PM UTC

evgen wrote: post #45

joelbluminator wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different tastes. With all due respect, for every guy like you who doesn't want to work there, there are 10 that do. I understand that remote first doesn't work for everyone, nothing works for everyone.

You are quite delusional if you think the ratio is 10:1 in favor of WFH. One thing that the recent lockdown and forced WFH experiment has revealed is that while people are strongly in favor of flexibly WFH the ratio is closer to 10:1 against having no office at all.

The current situation isn't a good barometer for WFH for two reasons:

- Companies that previously laughed at the idea of WFH were forced to implement it without much time to prepare. Their technology, culture, and processes are bad.

- We're in a pandemic, so I can't go hang with my friends after 5pm at a bar or do any outside hobbies. This slight cabin fever is making people dislike WFH which is ironic because usually WFH means you have more time to go outside and do fun things.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#77

Post by dmode » Thu, May 21, 2020, 4:27 PM UTC

People have commented the impact of this shift on SF/NYC etc, but based on this announcement the impact on smaller tech hubs will be even more devastating. Why would you now open a office in a smaller tech hub when you can hire someone from anywhere ? The impact of this in Canada can be huge

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#78

Post by alexbanks » Thu, May 21, 2020, 4:27 PM UTC

godzillabrennus wrote: post #26

Anyone else think these companies will pull a Yahoo and undo this policy after the pandemic?

Revenue is king. Yahoo pulled it as a last ditch "I don't know, maybe this is the problem" attempt. If companies going full time remote find that they're struggling to perform they'll probably switch back. I think if they just continue the same or improve, definitely not.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#79

Post by johnrob » Thu, May 21, 2020, 4:28 PM UTC

tachyonbeam wrote: post #35

godzillabrennus wrote: post #26

Anyone else think these companies will pull a Yahoo and undo this policy after the pandemic?

It's possible. Lots of people don't like working remotely. They might lose a lot of valuable employees. I suppose over time they might also attract people who prefer working from home exclusively, but they would be losing many older employees with valuable knowledge. One way or another, there's going to be some kind of pushback. Many people threatening to quit, many actually quitting. The cynical part of me thinks th…

For those seeking the office experience, it will feel a lot different when everyone is maintaining 6 feet of distance. Not going to be the same experience people were fond of, IMO.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#80

Post by oiasdjfoiasd » Thu, May 21, 2020, 4:29 PM UTC

jaredcwhite wrote: post #32

What's surprising isn't that a company like Shopify is going remote-first. It's that it was ever not remote-first in the first place. The now-passing era of startups and big tech companies centering their workforce around physical offices will be looked back on as one of the most strange and illogical aspects of early 21st-century business!

lol