Earlier quoted context omitted.
How far do I have to go back? I know Sleeping Beauty (1959) is definitely much sanitized from the stories it's based on.
Thirties and forties.
Snow white is dark ???
Disney is brainwash for children.
Tolstoy’s Children’s Stories
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Re: Tolstoy’s Children’s Stories
#72Re: Tolstoy’s Children’s Stories
#73Those books shouldn't be judged by today's norms. They were not written for the children (nor parents... especially not parents) of today, but for children back then who lived in a completely different world. For instance, in the version of Cinderella by Charles Perrault - the version that we all know - one of the evil stepsisters was advised by her mother to cut off her toes in order to fit the slipper. She almost f…
Aren't we and our children exposed to much more violence, blood, and plain evilness in media nowadays? I don't understand how people in those times would be less sensitive to such themes.
In older societies, people see a lot more violence/blood toward animals. In old-fashioned societies, when you need a chicken, the butcher grabs a live one, wrestles it's wriggling body, wrings its neck, and skins it in front of you. You grab the meat and it's still warm. Butchers killing larger livestock is likely a show you can see near the market, you may even have participated in some such act yourself because of customs. It would be a common thing and it's so visceral. You smell it. You can see the animal's struggle, fear and pain. After you are habituated to that, a story is not so bad.
Re: Tolstoy’s Children’s Stories
#74Those stories sound awesome, my kids would love them!
Re: Tolstoy’s Children’s Stories
#75Actually, as Russian i know that most of classic Russian literature (before revolution of 1917) is highly depressing. I was attending a school while USSR was still alive, and even with relatively small number of classic russian books passed thru Soviet censorship, it was always like this: sad and depressing. Tolstoy, Nekrasov, Dostoevsky, Chekhov - no difference.
Re: Tolstoy’s Children’s Stories
#76Important point many are missing: Folktales were not originally for children. They were told among adults after children had gone to sleep. But when folklorists (like the Grimm brothers) started collecting and publishing folk tales, it became a trend to publish sanitized edition for children. Read something like the Arabian Nights tales in an uncensored version - these were clearly not intended for children anymore t…
> Folktales were not originally for children. I learned this the hard way. I purchased a beautifully made "Grimm's Complete Fairy Tales" to read to my then toddler. There are some particularly disturbing stories but I was surprised by how many were flat out nonsensical or silly (like The Story of a Boy Who Went Forth to Learn Fear [0]). It's fascinating to read these in their (translated) original form. Not your typi…
seriously what the fuck did I just read
Re: Tolstoy’s Children’s Stories
#77Important point many are missing: Folktales were not originally for children. They were told among adults after children had gone to sleep. But when folklorists (like the Grimm brothers) started collecting and publishing folk tales, it became a trend to publish sanitized edition for children. Read something like the Arabian Nights tales in an uncensored version - these were clearly not intended for children anymore t…
>Important point many are missing: Folktales were not originally for children.
How does this apply? What is this in response to?
Tolstoy's stories weren't based on folk tales, and were specifically meant for children.
Yet they are, at times, pretty grim, and often lack a punchline or a clear point, other than "such is life".
Which might have been the point anyway.
Re: Tolstoy’s Children’s Stories
#78Important point many are missing: Folktales were not originally for children. They were told among adults after children had gone to sleep. But when folklorists (like the Grimm brothers) started collecting and publishing folk tales, it became a trend to publish sanitized edition for children. Read something like the Arabian Nights tales in an uncensored version - these were clearly not intended for children anymore t…
> Folktales were not originally for children. I learned this the hard way. I purchased a beautifully made "Grimm's Complete Fairy Tales" to read to my then toddler. There are some particularly disturbing stories but I was surprised by how many were flat out nonsensical or silly (like The Story of a Boy Who Went Forth to Learn Fear [0]). It's fascinating to read these in their (translated) original form. Not your typi…
> flat out nonsensical e.g. The Story of a Boy Who Went Forth to Learn Fear
That reminded me of GOT... the ending was a disappointment to an otherwise interesting tale.
Re: Tolstoy’s Children’s Stories
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
Im currently reading Archipel Gulag from Alexander Solschenitzyn and that joke sounds quite familliar. The reality of the past century in Russia really proved optimists wrong. Devestating to read that book. It literally puts me on breaks to just sit and think. Sad that humans are capable of such cruelty.
Keep in mind that this book was written in USA
Actually, Solzhenitsyn was still residing in the USSR at the time of completion of the book.
Re: Tolstoy’s Children’s Stories
#80In case you skimmed the article after the first few paragraphs, note that the point is not that the stories are sad or grim but that they are only sad or grim. There is no moral or hate that leads to things happening. The characters just lives who’ve are sad. I also read the article as lighthearted and humorous and so assumed some things may have been exaggerated it embellished slightly for effect.
Knowing Tolstoy's other writings I get the feeling that these one paragraph summaries don't do his prose justice.
I read the original story for "The Lion and the Puppy", and indeed, the summary doesn't do the story justice.
The story is more grim and heart-wrecking.
And there is no obvious take-away, everything just sucks.
But it's a story of a loss that one can relate to. Depressed people are known to listen to sad songs, and get relief from that.
I'm not in a very good place now, and reading the Lion and the Puppy story in Russian somehow was a relief. It melted the numbness away.
And that's what Tolstoy was going for, perhaps. No ham-fisted morals. Just carefully crafted vignettes of grim life.
I do think that Tolstoy never had an appreciation of the many dimensions of human happiness. "Every happy family is alike, but unhappy families are miserable in their own ways", he wrote. I disagree; I see commonality in misery, and it's the path to happiness that has to be crafted and often ends up unique. But I digress.