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YC S20 Remote Batch

blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: YC S20 Remote Batch

#71

Post by ccozan »

bpodgursky wrote: post #69
xchaotic wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you get the dramatically more poor from?

Poland, Bulgaria, Romania, Greece have a lot of very smart and hard workers, but they are not (yet) wealthy countries. People in eastern Europe simply do not have the disposable income that Americans or western Europeans (usually) have.

Have you been lately in Romania? You would be surprised how much disposable income people have there.

The country is one of the biggest cereal producer of EU, a major car industry player and has big reserves of oil and gas.

Anecdotally, since turism/horeca services is really a minor part of the GDP, the COVID-19 will not affect it too much. Whereas in West going out is a major activity and has much influence.

Re: YC S20 Remote Batch

#72

Post by CalRobert »

xchaotic wrote: post #67
kick wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only slightly bigger, much of it is dramatically more poor, and a sizeable portion of it can't understand English, much less German.

Where do you get the dramatically more poor from?

Wages in Europe are shockingly low from the perspective of an American.

One example: The UK is a reasonably wealthy country. Median household income in the UK is 29,400 GBP (36,000 USD). The poorest state in the US (Mississippi) has a median household income around 43,000 USD

This applies doubly for high-paying jobs (devs in wealthy parts of the US make 2-4x+ what they would in wealthy parts of Europe).

I switched to working remotely for a US company a couple years ago, and while I used to have a "sure why not chat" policy with local headhunters I don't even bother anymore because the offers they can come up with are astonishingly low compared to my already-below-market-for-the-US wage.

That being said, at the low end of the job market (minimum wage or close to it) people can make more here than in the US, and with paid vacation and healthcare to boot, and there's less inequality as a whole, but the fact remains if you're trying to sell something there's less money to chase.

Sure, healthcare is no-cost, you get a month or more of vacation a year even if you're in low-paid work (if it's full time), and quality of life is better in many respects, but once you get away from the nordics, really, there's just a lot less money about.

Also, lack of a common language is still an issue (How many versions of komplett.no needed to be translated?), and not just for sites, but for support, logistics, etc.

If you send physical products Europe is expensive to ship in. I can send stuff to the US cheaper than some of Europe (though customs applies, of course)

I'm in Europe, and would like to start a company, and even I would be using my local market primarily for testing and then focus on the US. On the bright side, devs are a hell of a lot cheaper here.

Re: YC S20 Remote Batch

#73

Post by juped »

Good! I have a potential job that I am quite interested in taking, so I may not end up applying after all, but should that fall through I'll be applying.

Re: YC S20 Remote Batch

#74

Post by robk »

hef19898 wrote: post #47
robk wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German notary requirements make investing hell compared to us or uk

My impression was that investments in US entities requires, kind of, a lawyer. So not that much different, if you ask me. With Germany being in the EU, you can also incorporate in whatever EU country you want. The UK is obviously out for now, but take Estonia for example. Makes taxes a lot more complex for the company, but much less so when compared to YCs way of transforming into a US Inc. with a German / EU local e…

In the UK or USA I can setup a company in a few days and generally legals for a Seed round wouldn't really ever exceed $25k. In Germany there's far far more hassle sadly, German language capability is a must and the notary requirement creates enough inertia I'd rather just never deal with a GmbH unless it's absolutely necessary. One of our deals required reading legal documents out loud in person for 3 hours - that's just not really feasible as an investor at scale.

Re: YC S20 Remote Batch

#75

Post by nl »

ccozan wrote: post #71
bpodgursky wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poland, Bulgaria, Romania, Greece have a lot of very smart and hard workers, but they are not (yet) wealthy countries. People in eastern Europe simply do not have the disposable income that Americans or western Europeans (usually) have.

Have you been lately in Romania? You would be surprised how much disposable income people have there. The country is one of the biggest cereal producer of EU, a major car industry player and has big reserves of oil and gas. Anecdotally, since turism/horeca services is really a minor part of the GDP, the COVID-19 will not affect it too much. Whereas in West going out is a major activity and has much influence.

The average yearly income in Romania is US$8100 per year. The average income in Mississippi (the poorest state in the US) is $42,000.

That's a fair difference in available disposable income!

(Having said that, I've worked with some Romania developers and they were great. I'd hire there, but there are better markets to sell into)

Re: YC S20 Remote Batch

#76

Post by nl »

kick wrote: post #15
ThePhysicist wrote: post #2

If they now would be able to invest in foreign companies like GmbHs or UK Limiteds it would be perfect. I understand why they don’t want to do that but I think for a lot of companies to which YC could be interesting (us included) it’s simply not possible or very difficult to do a flip to a US company.

That increases complexity drastically for what's basically a third and a sixth of the reward, if even that. I don't think it makes that much sense.

I agree it increases complexity, but this argument makes no sense. You don't need to be a German or British company to target those markets - you can do both from a Delaware LLC perfectly fine.

Re: YC S20 Remote Batch

#77

Post by CalRobert »

mangoman wrote: post #61

I've worked remotely for the past 3.5 years. As one of two employees at a small statup, at a startup that started remote friendly and then revoked it, and now at a startup that is moving towards being remote equal (25% and rising). Not that long compared to others here, but long enough to have seen things that work and seen things that don't work, and with sufficiently varied approaches. I think there's reasons why t…

If you're a parent, it's possibly the _only_ way you can do long hours (responsibly)

Re: YC S20 Remote Batch

#78

Post by kick »

nl wrote: post #76
kick wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That increases complexity drastically for what's basically a third and a sixth of the reward, if even that. I don't think it makes that much sense.

I agree it increases complexity, but this argument makes no sense. You don't need to be a German or British company to target those markets - you can do both from a Delaware LLC perfectly fine.

Exactly! So there's no point in accepting companies registered in foreign countries.

Re: YC S20 Remote Batch

#79

Post by ccozan »

nl wrote: post #75
ccozan wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you been lately in Romania? You would be surprised how much disposable income people have there. The country is one of the biggest cereal producer of EU, a major car industry player and has big reserves of oil and gas. Anecdotally, since turism/horeca services is really a minor part of the GDP, the COVID-19 will not affect it too much. Whereas in West going out is a major activity and has much influence.

The average yearly income in Romania is US$8100 per year. The average income in Mississippi (the poorest state in the US) is $42,000. That's a fair difference in available disposable income! (Having said that, I've worked with some Romania developers and they were great. I'd hire there, but there are better markets to sell into)

Agree, but the average income does not give any indication of the said disposable income to the respective income ( in % ). Also averages reflect quite poor the distribution of income, since some outliers can move the point quite drastically.

But, yes point taken, there is of course a difference. Corruption is a main point. Also due to the gray or black economy I suspect that the above $8100 are likely double.

Re: YC S20 Remote Batch

#80

Post by nl »

kick wrote: post #78
nl wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree it increases complexity, but this argument makes no sense. You don't need to be a German or British company to target those markets - you can do both from a Delaware LLC perfectly fine.

Exactly! So there's no point in accepting companies registered in foreign countries.

There is a point to it: it makes it easier for existing companies. But there are downsides to it too, as outlined in the FAQ.
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