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A twenty-year professor on starting college this fall: Don’t

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Re: A twenty-year professor on starting college this fall: Don’t

#71

Post by solidasparagus »

t-writescode wrote: post #31
collegeburner wrote: post #20

I'm looking at college this fall and seriously wondering about this. I'll have to spend a lot of money if I go to an "elite" school, and the point of doing that is to make connections with my peers and with professors. I don't see the point of paying that kind of money for that sort of experience. That aside, not starting college may not be a good idea, either. Does anyone with more experience have advice on this? I…

> I do have a job at a cybersecurity firm where I'm a part-time developer, and my boss would probably convert me to full-time. You already have a job and your boss has made you a developer. One thing you'll get in school that you won't get on the job, in general, is algorithm training. This is an important step for developing the best code you can and being exposed to weird and different ways to write things. This is…

As a counterpoint - having an elite school on your resume is beneficial for your career. It won't get you jobs, but it will get you interviews and can help you in the interviews (the interviewer's assumptions about you tend to be positive).

Re: A twenty-year professor on starting college this fall: Don’t

#72

Post by timkam »

Observations from overseas (Sweden): possibly because college/university is typically (almost) free of cost and because of Sweden's culture of continuous education, there is an increase in university enrollment applications: https://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx. I must say that I like that in times of high unemployment, the "free education" feature allows people to further educate themselves when there are little employment opportunities. IMO, this feature takes the risk burden (that the article is mentioning) off the individual.

Re: A twenty-year professor on starting college this fall: Don’t

#73

Post by DennisP »

frankbreetz wrote: post #63
lilt wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you read the article. It's telling people to defer a year because of coronavirus, not the usual college is not worth it schpeel. That being said, I disagree with your advice in two cases: 1) Most top schools offer free tuition if your family income is below a generous threshold (like $150k). If you can get into Stanford and meet this criteria, it's cheaper than your local community college. 2) If you ar…

I read the article and I am saying instead of deferring a year of college go to community college. You should do this regardless of the covid.

Yes if, as he says, you're satisfied with your community college being mostly remote classes, because that could well be what you end up with.

Re: A twenty-year professor on starting college this fall: Don’t

#74

Post by pfranz »

lilt wrote: post #52
frankbreetz wrote: post #18

As a millennial college graduate, my number one piece of advice to college bound high schoolers is do the first two years at community college. The debt is not worth the experience. Most people spend the first two years figuring stuff out, community college is a great place to do that. I didn't even know this was an option until after college and I feel failed by my high school college advisors. Unless you are very c…

I don't think you read the article. It's telling people to defer a year because of coronavirus, not the usual college is not worth it schpeel. That being said, I disagree with your advice in two cases: 1) Most top schools offer free tuition if your family income is below a generous threshold (like $150k). If you can get into Stanford and meet this criteria, it's cheaper than your local community college. 2) If you ar…

> 2) If you are studying a technical field, even if you are average, a degree has greater ROI than just about anything else. You can pay off your debt in the first few years out of school and continue earning dividends for the rest of your life.

What's the downside to going to a community college? Where I grew up the credits were transferable.

They did say, "Most people spend the first two years figuring stuff out". I went to college knowing I wanted to study computers, but didn't know what specifically. If I changed fields I'd still have the first 2 years to pay back.

I wish I had gone to a community college first. I overpaid for a worse educational experience. There was too much competition for core classes. So you had to wait semesters to get in. When you did get in the class sizes were much larger. Equivalent, transferrable classes were available, cheaper, and had smaller class sizes at nearby community colleges.

Re: A twenty-year professor on starting college this fall: Don’t

#75

Post by lonelappde »

pfranz wrote: post #74
lilt wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you read the article. It's telling people to defer a year because of coronavirus, not the usual college is not worth it schpeel. That being said, I disagree with your advice in two cases: 1) Most top schools offer free tuition if your family income is below a generous threshold (like $150k). If you can get into Stanford and meet this criteria, it's cheaper than your local community college. 2) If you ar…

> 2) If you are studying a technical field, even if you are average, a degree has greater ROI than just about anything else. You can pay off your debt in the first few years out of school and continue earning dividends for the rest of your life. What's the downside to going to a community college? Where I grew up the credits were transferable. They did say, "Most people spend the first two years figuring stuff out".…

Some people take community college level courses at university, payit inflated prices for the false prestige of a mid tier school like American University. That's a waste. If you start University at a level above community college (which many people here did), and get a decent price, it's good.

Re: A twenty-year professor on starting college this fall: Don’t

#76

Post by pfranz »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #46
perl4ever wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly is the negative consequence you are envisioning from 2 years at community college and 2 years at your in-state 4-year school, vs. all four years at the latter? The typical alternative that people need to be guided away from is one of the for-profit "career" schools that doesn't have transferable credits and is way more expensive than community college.

I think they envision a lack of support and encouragement, and therefore the student dropping out or not finishing a degree.

In my experience Universities seem to actively filter students. Perhaps I didn't reach out (or the University I attended was particularly bad), but I don't remember much support services when I attended.

Re: A twenty-year professor on starting college this fall: Don’t

#77

Post by lonelappde »

serf wrote: post #70
wikibob wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree. Graduation rates are drastically lower from community colleges. There is vastly less academic support available. The people around you will be vastly less ambitious. This will rub off on you. Yes 4 year university is now overpriced in America. But if you can, go to a 4 year university. Yes maybe go to an in-state university instead of out of state if that is cheaper, or go where you get the best financial a…

>Graduation rates are drastically lower from community colleges. how is that a useful metric for anything, really? Look how many extra programs pull people into community colleges, and look at the difference in accessibility between community colleges and universities. A stay-at-home mother isn't going to be eyeballing Stanford as a viable way to get her nursing degree with night classes. In the same instance, a stay…

I don't know. I have a friend who got a PhD from UW as a "stay at home mother".

Re: A twenty-year professor on starting college this fall: Don’t

#78

Post by lonelappde »

chrisweekly wrote: post #58
frankbreetz wrote: post #18

As a millennial college graduate, my number one piece of advice to college bound high schoolers is do the first two years at community college. The debt is not worth the experience. Most people spend the first two years figuring stuff out, community college is a great place to do that. I didn't even know this was an option until after college and I feel failed by my high school college advisors. Unless you are very c…

A primary reason to attend the most exclusive college you can is the academic caliber of your fellow students.

You mean high socioeconomic caliber, don't you?

High academic caliber peers are easily available online.

Re: A twenty-year professor on starting college this fall: Don’t

#79

Post by intopieces »

frankbreetz wrote: post #18

As a millennial college graduate, my number one piece of advice to college bound high schoolers is do the first two years at community college. The debt is not worth the experience. Most people spend the first two years figuring stuff out, community college is a great place to do that. I didn't even know this was an option until after college and I feel failed by my high school college advisors. Unless you are very c…

I got what I still think is the sweetest deal: I was able to take all but one of my classes at community college for my freshman year, while living in the dorms at the state university. It was cheaper to do it that way and the experience was practically the same. In fact, I'm not sure most of my friends even remembered that's what I was doing, since we all had different majors and classes anyway.

Re: A twenty-year professor on starting college this fall: Don’t

#80

Post by kurthr »

pfranz wrote: post #74
lilt wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you read the article. It's telling people to defer a year because of coronavirus, not the usual college is not worth it schpeel. That being said, I disagree with your advice in two cases: 1) Most top schools offer free tuition if your family income is below a generous threshold (like $150k). If you can get into Stanford and meet this criteria, it's cheaper than your local community college. 2) If you ar…

> 2) If you are studying a technical field, even if you are average, a degree has greater ROI than just about anything else. You can pay off your debt in the first few years out of school and continue earning dividends for the rest of your life. What's the downside to going to a community college? Where I grew up the credits were transferable. They did say, "Most people spend the first two years figuring stuff out".…

The downside is that you basically won't get into Stanford, MIT, Harvard, Yale... or most any other "top" college after going to community college. I know of one counter example, and I know of many very smart capable people who would have been capable and profited from such a degree, but missed their chance... which in turn made it VERY difficult to get any advanced degree.

Maybe that doesn't matter in CS/programming, but it does in lots of other (e.g. Engineering/Science) disciplines.

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