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What Would a WeChat Replacement Need?

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Re: What Would a WeChat Replacement Need?

#71

Post by sinxccc »

verall wrote: post #57
tanilama wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the international opinion is that there is no WeChat competitor in China because people are afraid to step on the toes of those in power But how can there isn't a WeChat competitor, that actually does all the things WeChat is capable of in US/EU? Regarding WeChat as if it is another chat application only means you have never been a regular user of it, which is probably true to most HN folks. WeChat actually…

I understand WeChat is more comparable to Google services (webview, payments, maps, social platform, chat) in terms of scope, but in America, Google gets challenged in specific areas and loses, like losing social to Facebook after many social media platform attempts. Why doesn't WeChat get more competitors in just a specific area, like chat, which is a lot simpler, so a company could potentially do it better than WeC…

Some WeChat competitors in China: Chat: Fetion, Doushan, Mi Talk; Social: Soul, Momo; Payment: Alipay, Huawei Pay, UnionPay QuickPass

Re: What Would a WeChat Replacement Need?

#72

Post by yumraj »

shalmanese wrote: post #55
m11a wrote: post #14

I think people that feel WeChat is simply a social network don't understand WeChat. Though the article doesn't say this, the comments here and popular opinion generally think that. From my time visiting China I'm not sure it's possible to live, in the urban areas, without WeChat. Payments are basically all through WeChat; I found places that didn't take Visa/Mastercard (or even know what those were, although that may…

Nowadays, it's literally impossible to live in China without either WeChat or Alipay as health codes are integrated into the apps and it can be impossible to move outside without displaying your health code. Travelling on trains, planes and long haul busses now require you to have the app. I don't think enough has been made about how extraordinary it is that a sovereign government has let such a core governmental fun…

the for profit business has deep relationship with the government and is perhaps like its virtual arm, and it benefits the government by providing deeper access to people's activities.

Re: What Would a WeChat Replacement Need?

#73

Post by verst »

WeChat is many things all in a single app:

  - A payments platform called WeChat Pay (think PayPal, Venmo, Apply Pay, Android Pay all combined)

  - A consumer messenger platform with voice and video chat (think Facebook Messenger + WhatsApp)

  - A friends newsfeed called Moments with audio and video support, external links but visibility of 
 content is timeboxed in days, weeks or months (think Facebook News Feed with a touch of Instagram Stories)

  - An e-commerce store platform called WeChat Store (think Shopify)

  - A business platform called "Official Accounts" with many features:

    * A business / bot messaging platform (think Facebook Messenger for Business)

    * An advertising platform

    * A content distribution platform, primarily through Official Account Subscription Accounts (like blogs, news, think Medium). WeChat offers this through "Channels", "Top Stories", "Official Accounts" and "Mini Programs".

    * WeChat Official Accounts Service Accounts can create "Mini Programs" which are rich integrations and tightly integrate with your linked WeChat Payments account, for example:

      1. Didi Chuxing for Ridesharing (Uber)

      2. Mobike for Bike Rental (Lime Bike etc)

      3. Meituan Dianping for e-commerce and food delivery

      4. Douban, Yishenghuo, Yoopay etc for Event / Concert Tickets (think Eventbrite, Ticketmaster)
Most noteworthy is that WeChat Mini Programs are standalone and don't deeplink to other apps. No aspect of WeChat does Deeplinking to any other app. You always stay in WeChat.

Re: What Would a WeChat Replacement Need?

#74

Post by verst »

throwaway6250 wrote: post #24

People seem to have the idea that WeChat is some sort of amazing application -- it's not. In fact the only reason why it has the market share it does in China is simply because all competitors are blocked. Some of WeChat's real pain points are: - No backing up your messages to the cloud like WhatsApp or having them loaded from the server like Facebook Messenger. Moving all your messages from one phone to another is q…

WeChat Mini Programs (integrations / built-in "apps") usually aren't as rich as the equivalent standalone iOS / Android apps, but they benefit from WeChat's distribution platform and network effect.

Everything shared on WeChat usually deeplinks to the equivalent Mini Program within WeChat. These apps receive organic traffic through social sharing and can also enhance this through advertising on WeChat.

I do not see Chinese consumers switch apps much other than switching to video / streaming apps like 抖音 (TikTok) and gaming apps.

Re: What Would a WeChat Replacement Need?

#75

Post by verst »

sho_hn wrote: post #21
tensor wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's definitely not true. WeChat has a bunch of ecommerce stuff built in among other features. You can pay for stuff on WeChat and there are stores. It even has translation built in to facilitate buying and selling between people from different countries. I think there are also apps and other stuff there too. It's more like a chat app that became an ecommerce and mini-app platform.

It's similar with KakaoTalk in Korea, which now also has a payment system in addition to acting as a regular bank, and allows you to buy various things including, say, hairdresser appointments. 93% smartphone market share.

Kakao has a separate app for everything. Quite different from WeChat. KakaoTalk, KakaoTaxi, KakaoPay etc etc

I wouldn't say that those are all extremely well integrated with each other.

Re: What Would a WeChat Replacement Need?

#76

Post by shakethemonkey »

blackrock wrote: post #60
shalmanese wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nowadays, it's literally impossible to live in China without either WeChat or Alipay as health codes are integrated into the apps and it can be impossible to move outside without displaying your health code. Travelling on trains, planes and long haul busses now require you to have the app. I don't think enough has been made about how extraordinary it is that a sovereign government has let such a core governmental fun…

I recall, this actually happened a few months ago, but with Uber. What happened, was Uber started dropping customers that had a poor rating. Maybe they didn’t give a $5 tip, so the driver gave them a poor rating. Who knows why. But the result is that the public, the customer in question, can no longer use Uber’s services. This is terrifying, in that Uber wanted to eliminate public taxi services, and privatize it on t…

How is this different from a taxi company? A taxi company can and will blacklist your address. In fact, it may blacklist entire neighborhoods. This happens today.

Re: What Would a WeChat Replacement Need?

#77

Post by filoleg »

izacus wrote: post #62
m11a wrote: post #14

I think people that feel WeChat is simply a social network don't understand WeChat. Though the article doesn't say this, the comments here and popular opinion generally think that. From my time visiting China I'm not sure it's possible to live, in the urban areas, without WeChat. Payments are basically all through WeChat; I found places that didn't take Visa/Mastercard (or even know what those were, although that may…

> - For America/Europe: WeChat would never happen, unless there was severe monopolisation that allowed a company to roll something like WeChat out successfully, or the federal government / national governments mandated it Isn't Apple ecosystem basically US/European WeChat? It's not a single app, but they use tight integration and single device lock to create essentially a full copy of all WeChat services with iMessag…

>Isn't Apple ecosystem basically US/European WeChat?

If you could only perform all your life necessities by using a single app from Apple, like taxis/medical records/paying for things/transit access/government stuff/etc., then sure. But for now, there isn't anything like this. In fact, it would not come to fruition at any point in this current timeline imo, given that for each one of those things, Apple has competitors who have offerings just as good or better for each of those categories.

Also, I heavily doubt that US would ever subject itself to every single aspect of people's lives having to go through a single private entity with no alternatives available.

I think another part of the reason it happened in China (aside from obvious ones that people already mentioned, like WeChat being de-facto pretty much an extension of CCP) is the fact that before WeChat there was nothing. So WeChat came to an empty field and filled all that vacuum. In 2020, there is no such vacuum in the US/Europe. For each of the tasks one would use their smartphone for, there are multiple competent competing entries.

Re: What Would a WeChat Replacement Need?

#78

Post by whytai »

blackrock wrote: post #60
shalmanese wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nowadays, it's literally impossible to live in China without either WeChat or Alipay as health codes are integrated into the apps and it can be impossible to move outside without displaying your health code. Travelling on trains, planes and long haul busses now require you to have the app. I don't think enough has been made about how extraordinary it is that a sovereign government has let such a core governmental fun…

I recall, this actually happened a few months ago, but with Uber. What happened, was Uber started dropping customers that had a poor rating. Maybe they didn’t give a $5 tip, so the driver gave them a poor rating. Who knows why. But the result is that the public, the customer in question, can no longer use Uber’s services. This is terrifying, in that Uber wanted to eliminate public taxi services, and privatize it on t…

A few points. Uber drivers cannot see if individual riders have tipped them. They also cannot see your individual rating of them, nor you of theirs.

Policing their own platform works both ways. When I order an uber I expect a certain quality of service. ie a safe, comfortable ride. Likewise, when I drive for uber I expect people to respect my property (my car). I expect uber to fulfill both of these things so that it is a usable platform.

Beyond that, if you get removed from using uber can't you use lyft, didi, a taxi, or public transit?

I would hope that the long term effect of this is that people behave in ubers. I personally have had friends throw up in them or drunkenly harass female drivers.

Re: What Would a WeChat Replacement Need?

#80

Post by filoleg »

tanilama wrote: post #56
verall wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the international opinion is that there is no WeChat competitor in China because people are afraid to step on the toes of those in power. Chrome is enormous and ubiquitous because maintaining a modern browser is orders of magnitude more difficult than maintaining a chat application. Why do you think there a many competitors outside China but none in?

> I think the international opinion is that there is no WeChat competitor in China because people are afraid to step on the toes of those in power But how can there isn't a WeChat competitor, that actually does all the things WeChat is capable of in US/EU? Regarding WeChat as if it is another chat application only means you have never been a regular user of it, which is probably true to most HN folks. WeChat actually…

> But how can there isn't a WeChat competitor, that actually does all the things WeChat is capable of in US/EU?

For many reasons, but I think a major one is because neither EU nor US (both people and governments) would be cool with all aspects of one's life being functional ONLY by using this one app. Imagine if a WeChat competitor came out in EU/US, and now you cannot use transit without this app at all, or buy things, or get a taxi, etc.

This is extremely anti-competitive and goes even beyond the usual monopoly definition. Major politicians these days run for president on the promise to break down Amazon, Google, etc. And neither of those come even close to the monopolistic reach on the scale that WeChat operates on.

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