Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society • Hacker News Board

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#71

Post by ohnope » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 10:47 AM UTC

pojntfx wrote: post #54

As someone who identified as a minimalist until a while back, I’d argue that the primary lesson I’ve learned from it is not necessary to thrive for the minimal possible amount of items, but to _keep track_ of the things you own. I do for example have a list of all my personal belongings and update that list _before_ I ever buy something; this way you get the same benefit of “feeling in control” without having any det…

I’ve wanted to create a list of my belongings, with maybe a few other metrics like category, rough value, happiness factor, etc. How detailed did you go, and did you use it as a survey tool to initially figure out what you don’t need?

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#72

Post by agustif » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 10:49 AM UTC

Koshkin wrote: post #65

kijin wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could be a hoarder in a tiny apartment, too. Or you could be a minimalist who prefers the mostly empty feeling of a large home filled with few things, just like web designers who place huge margins everywhere.

'Huge' does not leave an impression of minimalism.

If what's huge, is blank space. maybe it does?

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#73

Post by dageshi » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 10:49 AM UTC

wiz21c wrote: post #56

pfranz wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have noticed that people pushing minimalism...or at least the idea of "throw it away and buy it if you ever end up needing it" is a luxury that I think many people take for granted. Even if you're not privileged I think there's value in consciously assessing where in your life you want to be minimal and where you don't. I just went through my old tech stuff and recycled cellphones so old they may not even connect t…

>> As I got more serious about cooking I donated a lot of extra pans and doo-dads. Previously, I would just collect things and as I learned more about what made something good and why, I could narrow down to 1 or 2 higher quality items (knives, pans, etc). As I learned more techniques, I needed fewer specialty items. Same experience here. Conclusion : if we'd educate people better on how to cook rather than showing t…

Some people just don't like cooking. I guess the magical kitchen gadgets may appeal to them in the sense of "this might make me like cooking" because it looks easy.

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#74

Post by balfirevic » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 10:58 AM UTC

nsoonhui wrote: post #68

UweSchmidt wrote: post #50

Minimalism is luxury. You know you could replace whatever you just threw out (which in turn is a way to declutter; mentally allocating money for a pair of pants to potentially replace the 3 pairs you're never wearing helps getting rid of those). You know you could go back to your parents after "selling everything and backpacking around the world). Instagram-minimalism additionally requires replacing and color-matchin…

> Minimalism is luxury. You know you could replace whatever you just threw out No it's no, you grossly misunderstand the fundamentals of minimalism. It's make do with whatever you have, and to be content with less, including less money, less possessions, less prestige and less of everything. It's accepting the degradation of social status. "Going back to parents after selling everything and travelling around the worl…

> _that's_ minimalism

I must have missed it, who is in charge of the definition of minimalism?

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#75

Post by hnarn » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 11:00 AM UTC

DubiousPusher wrote: post #4

Two ideas which often I encounter together yet I have grown to find incompatible are self reliance and minimalism. If you wish to become more self reliant i.e. more able to handle for yourself rather than through another's labor the impositions you create in the world, you will find yourself needing to masters, access and eventual own many more tools and material. My father, a man capable of building or repairing alm…

I've always taken it for granted that self-reliance and minimalism are contradictions in terms. The reason we have things like factories in society is because it's not practical or efficient for everyone to manufacture everything they need for themselves. By collaborating, be it from borrowing a saw from a neighbor or by building a multi-national logging corporation, this "cooperation" makes things more efficient. It's this "societal" efficiency that makes minimalism possible in the first place.

Every description I have seen of minimalism has not been centered around self-reliance, but around anti-materialism. Since we live in a society where our collective production output and efficiency is higher than it has ever been throughout human history, it's easier than ever to collect property that has limited or no real use, and consume without being mindful of the effect it has on our environment or at the very least on your own economy.

So, in my mind, "minimalism", whatever that means, is not a means to self-reliance, it's a questioning of modern consumerism and whether we are perhaps over-spending on things that do not improve our lives. Whoever is trying to combine minimalism with "prepping", "self-reliance", call it what you will, is at the very least confused in my book.

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#76

Post by angrais » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 11:04 AM UTC

DubiousPusher wrote: post #39

cyberbanjo wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But isn't buying millet just as un-minimalist as buying bread or wheat?

In this example eating unbaked grains would be the compromise to remain comparatively minimal and yet become more self reliant. Another example would be simple car maintenance. A minimalist would pay for an oil change. One may want to become more self reliant and begin changing one's own oil. In this case you will need a catch basin, a funnel, new oil and filter. You may need a jack, jack stands and a specialty wrenc…

What on earth are y'all talking about?! Buying unbaked grains to eat is to become self reliant? That's just unrealistic and makes no sense.

Why not buy bread (as GP said), cut it, and freeze it? Surely that would be a minimalist approach.

Minimalism is not reinventing how to do everything, but just having what's needed now. If bread is your breakfast, then it's what's needed daily.

FYI: it's possible to be a mechanic and a minimalist. Owning equipment in a garage is not anti-minimalism, it's just common sense. Especially if you have multiple cars (e.g. a family).

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#77

Post by JackPoach » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 11:08 AM UTC

As COVID-19 hits, people understand Taleb's idea about critical importance of multiple redundancies. These are clearly incompatible with minimalism. To be alive is more important than to be a minimalist in the end.

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#78

Post by friendlybus » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 11:21 AM UTC

DubiousPusher wrote: post #4

Two ideas which often I encounter together yet I have grown to find incompatible are self reliance and minimalism. If you wish to become more self reliant i.e. more able to handle for yourself rather than through another's labor the impositions you create in the world, you will find yourself needing to masters, access and eventual own many more tools and material. My father, a man capable of building or repairing alm…

He didn’t make that 2x4 or the scrap iron, they came from hardware shops long ago.

Your dad is capable of repairing anything because he has the mindset, creativity and skills. Were he rich he could take that same self reliance down to the local hardware store and buy what he needs to repair anything.

Though arguably if he were richer he wouldn’t be repairing so much, he’d be doing something else successfully as a self reliant guy.

The higher you go the more abstract what your self brings to the table becomes. It’s obvious that your dad relies on himself and his possessions. A self reliant guy in a company can easily have his natural ability and organized self reliance hidden under metrics and overlooked by class groupings.

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#79

Post by ikt » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 11:28 AM UTC

I just want to say I don't like this article at all.

It makes minimalism seem like a rigid ideology specifically for white males who command poor people to build and craft expensive housing and objects for them (and many of those objects are in the shape of penises?)

A whole lot of discussion on random art and murder from one of the people who made that style of art.

I thought this was going to be about minimalism, which to me is:

Q: What is minimalist living?

A: It’s simply getting rid of things you do not use or need, leaving an uncluttered, simple environment and an uncluttered, simple life. It’s living without an obsession with material things or an obsession with doing everything and doing too much. It’s using simple tools, having a simple wardrobe, carrying little and living lightly.

It's basically being more content with less which ties in nicely with financial independence. Instead I got lectured to for not being a woman of colour who renounces my privilege and whitewashing of things in an art history that I don't care for.

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#80

Post by mysticmode » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 11:29 AM UTC

clairity wrote: post #7

> “The ultimate minimalist is a hermit, a recluse, or a monk,” he says. “And to me, that’s not gonna change the world.” chinese historical/wuxia dramas often heavily feature taoist/buddhist “grandmasters”, who typically have (near-)superhuman abilities (from years of meditation on enlightenment, presumably). yet they’re reluctant to use those abilities because they also strive for detachment from the world and its ba…

Nicely written! I mean your comment on that point.

In Taoism, they say - accept the flow and about Yin-Yang philosophy.

> "And to me that's not gonna change the world"

This is a mystery. I'm from India, and I've read few Vedic texts where it says, all these elements we've accumulated and grown with, by elements I mean Father, Mother, Son, Wife, Mine, Not Mine are just aggregated and don't assign much significance.

This is to our rational minds seems really absurd! Hence it is a mystery that would unfold when you start delve into it deeply.