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Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

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Re: Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

#71

Post by strongholding »

op03 wrote: post #22
covid_stassi wrote: post #16

Anonymous new profile, my apologies. My partner wasn't comfortable with me saying this stuff in a public way. They work in the emergency department of a hospital in North America. It's not just that they'll be fired if they speak out... The hospitals are also threatening to withhold worker's compensation payouts if a staff member is caught using anything brought from home, even if it's real, name brand equipment. Got…

What is the rationale for not being allowed to bring stuff from home?

MD in an American hospital here. New account for obvious reasons.

I was disciplined for bringing in a reusable respirator. The reason given was that it made other staff believe the health system wasn't doing enough to protect employees and creating extra fear. And yes, I was threatened with termination in the middle of this crisis.

Re: Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

#72

Post by checktheama »

MiroF wrote: post #59
checktheama wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're probably right about the guild part. The chronic shortage of doctors? Well, that's because they're perhaps the strongest guild. The AMA puts a cap on the supply of doctors (via # of residency slots they allow). The PAs were invented so that another class of workers could do the work of doctors without jeopardizing the doctors' pay or status.

It appears that you are stating the exact same as the above comment, no?

I think the parent comment makes it seem like the guild is addressing a problem external to itself. My comment simply makes the causal link that the guild is solving a problem of its own making. A simpler solution would perhaps be to end/reduce the AMA monopoly. In that case, doctors would make less (as they do in the rest of the world), but the supply of doctors would be much higher.

Re: Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

#73

Post by Blackthorn »

Reedx wrote: post #12

There's also this: "Many hospitals bar doctors and other staff members from wearing protective masks in public areas. Some have been disciplined for pushing back." https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/31/health/hospitals-coronavi... How do we put a swift end to this nonsense? Surely the public will be overwhelmingly on the side of doctors, nurses and other healthcare workers.

> How do we put a swift end to this nonsense?

Unions.

Re: Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

#74

Post by segmondy »

freepor wrote: post #41

What an empty threat. A hospital is not going to fire staff at the moment of greatest demand, and a doctor with an intact credential can get hired anywhere they want in a split second. Maybe the hospitals can bully the nurses assistants and support staff, so the doctors need to step up and speak on their behalf too.

but they are, search the news.

Re: Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

#75

Post by thinkharderdev »

joshstrange wrote: post #63
thinkharderdev wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't really know but my guess is that it is a combination of: 1. Regulations against using non-approved medical equipment of unknown provenance. 2. A worry about health care workers who don't have stuff they can bring from home. It's not as if you can go about and buy an N95 mask right now. If some of the healthcare workers have respirators that they have lying around at home and some don't then it could cause frict…

This comment is not directed towards you as much as the hospitals 1. All regulations are pretty far out the window at this point, nurses are already reusing single-use items all over the place. 2. Oh so since we can't protect everyone we can't protect anyone?

I agree in general, especially on point 1. If it's just an issue of regulations then that is insane.

On the second point I would actually be more sympathetic to their position (though probably not enough to actually ban employees from doing it). Humans are funny and if some people on a unit have better equipment than others it can certainly cause some interpersonal tension that over-stressed hospitals can't deal with right now.

Re: Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

#76

Post by segmondy »

covid_stassi wrote: post #24
op03 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the rationale for not being allowed to bring stuff from home?

I think officially it is that they don't know what the employees are bringing from home. They could be bringing some knockoff mask that offers very little protection. But come on, you can't use a mask with 3M stamped on it that you bought at Home Depot? I'll also speculate that it could create friction between staff - How come you get protect and I don't? It could be a problem.

that's not it. it's because other staff members don't have protection and demand for one when they see someone protecting themselves.

Re: Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

#77

Post by save_ferris »

deskamess wrote: post #65
save_ferris wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're proving my point. If one of the most powerful labor groups in the economy is being subjected to ruthless firing for speaking out on critical health issues during a national crisis, then what does that say about the state of labor in the US in general?

Are they (Doctors) misunderstanding the environment? Surely in this particular case, firing the Doctor looks bad on the hospital. Leverage/PR is with the Doctor. Perhaps I am reading it wrong.

Negative PR is a poor tool to bring about meaningful change as it works very inconsistently. Zoom, Facebook, Equifax, etc. have all experienced sustained negative PR with little effect to their bottom line or operational structure. PR is also purchased, and companies spend heavily to rehab their image online.

Hospitals also are fairly well insulated from negative PR as well since they don't operate in a free market, which prevents patients from being able to choose to go elsewhere.

Re: Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

#79

Post by thendrill »

java-man wrote: post #58
lonelappde wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We who? Administrators are the ones who hire and fire.

we, the people. raise the issue with our elected officials. ask the media to cover the issue. and, probably, the most efficient: vote for the people who are knowledgeable, listen to scientific advice. of course, a better solution would be to implement a system where the goal of healthcare will be not profit, but the health of the general population.

You mean like Manning, Snowden and Assange?

You want to point out that people in power are not competent and only care about personal profits, and you also want to point out that whole system is an abusive farce? Yehh good luck with that...

Re: Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

#80

Post by op03 »

strongholding wrote: post #71
op03 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the rationale for not being allowed to bring stuff from home?

MD in an American hospital here. New account for obvious reasons. I was disciplined for bringing in a reusable respirator. The reason given was that it made other staff believe the health system wasn't doing enough to protect employees and creating extra fear. And yes, I was threatened with termination in the middle of this crisis.

Whatever the rationale, how they communicated and dealt with you is were things stink.

It needs to be addressed or it will repeat in some other context. Right thing to do is get cool heads in mgmt to handle the hot heads in mgmt. Small changes in comms can prevents such distracting/harmful escalations. And experienced managers/admins will know how to make it happen.

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