ZipGrow: Vertical farming/urban agriculture system • Hacker News Board

Re: ZipGrow: Vertical farming/urban agriculture system

#71

Post by LargoLasskhyfv » Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 4:36 AM UTC

AngryData wrote: post #61

pault wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can genetically engineer a more efficient plant for growing in a field, you can genetically engineer a plant that's more efficient to grow under LEDs, no? I don't see how a hypothetical breakthrough in generic engineering makes vertical farming a mad fantasy. There are certain crops that can't be grown in high yield monocultures and have to be transported from other parts of the world. I'm sure there are many…

There is no need to breed plants specifically for LED lights. All the newest and most efficient and cost effective LEDs are white spectrum now and emulate the sun far closer than any other light ever has. What matters is how efficiently can you make the lights run, and right now it is pretty damn good getting about 200 lumens per watts on those grow LEDs (versus about half that for a shitty standard household LED)

Isn't it counterproductive to waste LEDs optimized for our perception to plant growth which doesn't fully utilize the spectrum of sunlight? I thought that is WHY grow lights have this purple sheen, be it traditional flourescent ones, or contemporary LEDs, or a mix of red and blue ones.

Re: ZipGrow: Vertical farming/urban agriculture system

#72

Post by fyfy18 » Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 4:52 AM UTC

wallacoloo wrote: post #13

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If (a really big IF) solar panels can get efficient enough while LEDs also become more efficient, in theory plants grown indoors being fed by LEDs attuned to the precise portions of the spectrum they need with the whole thing powered by the solar panels, you could get a better yield than outdoor growing. Figure out cost effective fusion, things get even better. But neither is the case right now. As far as the urban a…

> As far as the urban agriculture crowd goes, they're concerned about the length of their logistics lines to their tables. Raspberries grown half a mile down the street in winter is better for the environment than flying them in from another hemisphere. Aside from environmental effects, it’s also just a more secure logistics chain. A person needs water, food, and shelter to survive. Sometimes it feels strange to me t…

Another commenter mentioned it's more energy efficient to grow tomatoes in Spain - where less heat is needed - and fly them to the UK. That may be true, but an even better way is to just grow crops that are suitable for that season.

In the UK you can grow crops all year round outdoors [0], and the growing seasons could easily be extended with a passive greenhouse (polycarbonate is more insulating than glass). You can also use tried and tested preservation techniques like canning and fermenting to keep food for other seasons.

[0] https://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/vegetables-all-year-round

Re: ZipGrow: Vertical farming/urban agriculture system

#73

Post by LargoLasskhyfv » Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 4:55 AM UTC

NoOneNew wrote: post #57

hndamien wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was imagining salad roads.

From personal experience, in Virginia and the pacific northwest, you get plenty of berry roads. Roads literally lined with prolific blackberry bushes and sometimes raspberry bushes too. Seriously, these things are weeds. Especially raspberries. They're fucking delicious weeds. During season, plenty of folks park on the side of the road to pick berries. These road berries are better by magnitudes compared to store bou…

Depending on the traffic loads of the roads i'd be wary of eating them for 'organic' reasons. The same goes for the embankments of railroads which are sprayed with herbicides, at least where i am.

Re: ZipGrow: Vertical farming/urban agriculture system

#74

Post by mythrwy » Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 5:05 AM UTC

syntaxing wrote: post #62

orasis wrote: post #40

I own 20 ZipGrow towers and have become quite disillusioned with them across 3 growing seasons. The biggest problem is that there is nothing to buffer moisture on the roots if there is an intermittent problem. You might get a nice crop of basil growing and then a clogged emitter for 12 hours can be the death of those plants. Here are all of the failure modes I have experienced: - pump dying - Leak in base causing all…

I want to get my feet wet with hydroponics because my daughter loves fresh produce and I love the idea growing her favorite fruits and veggies. Do you now how Zipgrow compares to Aerogarden (the "farm" size one).

An aquarium water pump https://www.ntotank.com/20gallon-duracast-rv-water-tank-x348..., a liquid holding container https://www.ntotank.com/20gallon-duracast-rv-water-tank-x348..., one or more large Tupperware (or whatever you find) tray(s) draining back into the liquid holder, Rockwell bricks (or another grow medium) in the trays, a cheap timer for the pump and you have your own ebb and flow system for a couple hundred bucks.

I've build several of these over the years. There's no need to spend extra money. But the soil and the sun are free if you can get it and imo better.

Re: ZipGrow: Vertical farming/urban agriculture system

#75

Post by noobly » Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 5:13 AM UTC

mythrwy wrote: post #74

syntaxing wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to get my feet wet with hydroponics because my daughter loves fresh produce and I love the idea growing her favorite fruits and veggies. Do you now how Zipgrow compares to Aerogarden (the "farm" size one).

An aquarium water pump https://www.ntotank.com/20gallon-duracast-rv-water-tank-x348... , a liquid holding container https://www.ntotank.com/20gallon-duracast-rv-water-tank-x348... , one or more large Tupperware (or whatever you find) tray(s) draining back into the liquid holder, Rockwell bricks (or another grow medium) in the trays, a cheap timer for the pump and you have your own ebb and flow system for a couple hun…

You may be forgetting that the sun causes cancer[0].

0: https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-canc...

Re: ZipGrow: Vertical farming/urban agriculture system

#76

Post by Kalium » Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 5:54 AM UTC

philipkglass wrote: post #46

mandelbrotwurst wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a false choice. Urban agriculture doesn't need to mean indoor agriculture / relying on excessive electricity / complex equipment etc. Cities can be plenty dense while still having enough space for people to grow potatoes for themselves and their neighbors.

You’re right. Urban farming with sunlight is fine. My energy arguments only apply to growing under artificial light.

Is it? That seems like a poor use of space that could be dense housing, commercially productive, or a wonderful park.

Re: ZipGrow: Vertical farming/urban agriculture system

#77

Post by Kalium » Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 5:58 AM UTC

swiftcoder wrote: post #58

pault wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The grocery stores are low on stock because of selfish people panic buying, not because there's not enough food. The supply chain is still functioning normally.

The supply chain is functioning normally, but "normal" means ~40% of food consumption in urban areas occurs via restaurants. The supply chain isn't designed for 100% of folks buying groceries at the supermarket and preparing their own food. And that's sort of the problem. The normal centralised supply chain optimises for normal usage patterns, and adapting to abnormal usage patterns causes widespread issues in the sh…

How do you imagine a de-centralized supply system, with each urban area's cell optimized for 40% of produce going to restaurants, would respond differently?

You're absolutely right. De-centralized systems can definitely respond better to local disturbances. Conversely, they're sometimes more vulnerable to larger scale disturbances that can more easily overwhelm the capacity of smaller systems to absorb shocks.

Re: ZipGrow: Vertical farming/urban agriculture system

#78

Post by Fiahil » Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 6:27 AM UTC

syntaxing wrote: post #62

orasis wrote: post #40

I own 20 ZipGrow towers and have become quite disillusioned with them across 3 growing seasons. The biggest problem is that there is nothing to buffer moisture on the roots if there is an intermittent problem. You might get a nice crop of basil growing and then a clogged emitter for 12 hours can be the death of those plants. Here are all of the failure modes I have experienced: - pump dying - Leak in base causing all…

I want to get my feet wet with hydroponics because my daughter loves fresh produce and I love the idea growing her favorite fruits and veggies. Do you now how Zipgrow compares to Aerogarden (the "farm" size one).

If you like fresh products, I'd suggest to stay away from anything like hydroponics. Vegetables won't taste good.

Re: ZipGrow: Vertical farming/urban agriculture system

#79

Post by mohankumar246 » Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 6:38 AM UTC

The economical value of growing veggies after paying city rents/wages/ and infra investment doesn't paint a good picture profit wise. The food business is mostly based on low wages paid to immigrant employees. It works because usually these people live in rural areas. Look at the milk price. I haven't seen it increase in 5 years..

Re: ZipGrow: Vertical farming/urban agriculture system

#80

Post by syntaxing » Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 7:14 AM UTC

Fiahil wrote: post #78

syntaxing wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to get my feet wet with hydroponics because my daughter loves fresh produce and I love the idea growing her favorite fruits and veggies. Do you now how Zipgrow compares to Aerogarden (the "farm" size one).

If you like fresh products, I'd suggest to stay away from anything like hydroponics. Vegetables won't taste good.

Can you please elaborate on that? This was actually one of my concerns since I would assume the "flavor(?)" is coming from whatever is in the water.