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Amazon sellers ‘hijack’ listings to sell face masks despite new rules

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Re: Amazon sellers ‘hijack’ listings to sell face masks despite new rules

#71
post #58
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one said anything about only "rich people" "deserving" anything. If you draw the conclusion that only "rich people" will have access to something if the price is higher (notice they didn't specify how much) that's fine, but don't go putting words in other people's mouths.

> but don't go putting words in other people's mouths. It's not "putting words in other people's mouths" to explicitly spell out the direct consequences of what they're saying. When the price of a good spikes to several times its everyday market price or even higher, it's reasonable to assume that it's gone up by enough to make it inaccessible to a meaningful portion of the usual customer base.

For a disposable item like face masks, consumers would gladly pay 3x the pre-pandemic mask prices for their own personal use. The buyers who aren’t willing to pay 3x are hoarders and resellers, because there’s no guarantee enough people will pay 5x or 6x for it to be worth it.

If the manufacturer prices are allowed to rise, the profits incentivize increased manufacturing. If the prices aren’t allowed to rise, the rationally selfish strategy is to hoard the entire stock of any non-gouging manufacturer and sell the product on a gray market like Amazon where anti-gouging rules are poorly enforced. The profits obtained by resellers could have instead gone to manufacturers, encouraging more people to become manufacturers until prices return to normal.

Nobody wants masks to be unavailable to the poor. The disagreement is what measures will best make them available to everyone, the poor included.

It’s reasonable for people to disagree on whether relaxing price controls would achieve this end. But to say that free-market advocates believe the poor “don’t deserve” access to masks is as disingenuous as saying anti-gouging advocates believe the public “deserves shortages”, or that people who aren’t tenacious enough to find masks at any price in a hoarding-dominated environment deserve to die. Any sane person acknowledges both solutions have major drawbacks.

Re: Amazon sellers ‘hijack’ listings to sell face masks despite new rules

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theoretically, its the stores that should be raising the pricing immediately when panics like this happen. It would dissuade people from buying more than they need, possibly in hopes of reselling, as the prices would already be elevated.

So only rich people deserve items demanded in a panic? The proper control is limit purchase per person per day. Raising prices on things like masks in a viral contagion like this is unconscionable

If there are 10,000 masks in stock but 100,000 people want to buy a mask, how do you distribute the masks to people? In a free market the price is determined by supply and demand, such that only 10,000 people will be willing to pay the higher price of the mask. Socialism doesn't work in this case, you just can't satisfy everyone's need for masks.

I'd argue that people shouldn't even buy masks during pandemics and they should be reserved for medical staff who actually need them and know how to use them properly.

Re: Amazon sellers ‘hijack’ listings to sell face masks despite new rules

#73
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So only rich people deserve items demanded in a panic? The proper control is limit purchase per person per day. Raising prices on things like masks in a viral contagion like this is unconscionable

No one said anything about only "rich people" "deserving" anything. If you draw the conclusion that only "rich people" will have access to something if the price is higher (notice they didn't specify how much) that's fine, but don't go putting words in other people's mouths.

It's the literal and direct point of rising the price. If an item is sought after by everyone, then rising the price primarily cuts off the least wealthy part.

Re: Amazon sellers ‘hijack’ listings to sell face masks despite new rules

#74
post #35

If only we could get rid of this widespread notion that price gouging is bad/evil...

It is truly painful to see how little people seem to understand or appreciate the living organism that is human action in the aggregate. Large surges in demand which are inevitably met with price increases are signals to other parts of the organism to send goods where they are needed. Higher prices encourage a balance of needs and responsible budgeting so individual cells don't simply take all that is available to th…

That works only if there's a reasonable way to meet the increased demand. The prices go up, which increases more manufacturing and more entrepreneurs moving inventory from different areas to ones with need.

In emergencies like this, there isn't enough supply available anywhere to meet demand. The manufacturers can't scale fast enough - and even if they could, they're often unwilling; scaling up has large up-front costs, so it's not worth doing if the demand is going to evaporate before they can recoup their costs.

The right solution here is for the governments to start issuing very large orders, thus ensuring the manufacturers can scale up without worries, while distributing the masks to everyone in an equal fashion. And jailing the price gougers for profiteering off global emergency while we're at it.

Re: Amazon sellers ‘hijack’ listings to sell face masks despite new rules

#75

If only we could get rid of this widespread notion that price gouging is bad/evil...

Yeah. When supplies can't meet demand, raising prices serves to discourage people from buying more than they need or buying just to resell.

On paper. What it really does is discourages the poor people from buying, so the price gougers have more supply available to sell to the panicking wealthy hoarders.

Re: Amazon sellers ‘hijack’ listings to sell face masks despite new rules

#76

I've got a decent amount of n95 (both 3M and HDX HD Brand) masks that we lucked into more than a significant amount of time ago. We are afraid to list them, at any price, because I'm afraid ebay/amazon will kill our listings at any price. I'm ready to ship them for free, of all costs, I just don't want my amazon "privileges" revoked. who do i give n95 masks too? edit: they are 2024 exp dates

> who do i give n95 masks too?

Donate them to your local hospital. Hospitals everywhere are running short on masks and other PPE, and a lot of doctors and nurses are going to die because of it. Italy is already hemorrhaging medical staff trying to stop the virus.

Re: Amazon sellers ‘hijack’ listings to sell face masks despite new rules

#77

This guy got a "hand sanitizer" copper disk (??) listed as an "Amazon's choice!" https://www.amazon.com/Sani-Disc-GK95D-Cleaner-Wherever-Prob...

Many metals are contact-antimicrobial See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimicrobial_properties_of_co... -: Copper and its alloys (brasses, bronzes, cupronickel, copper-nickel-zinc, and others) are natural antimicrobial materials. And https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligodynamic_effect -: The oligodynamic effect (from Greek oligos "few", and dynamis "force") is a biocidal effect of metals, especially heavy metals, tha…

I looked at this and the problem in practice is allegedly that residue from touching creates a film that cancels the effect. So aside from needing to polish it, you still have to clean it after just a few hours for the effect to work. It also doesn't kill germs immediately, it needs a few minutes to work. It still helps though.

Re: Amazon sellers ‘hijack’ listings to sell face masks despite new rules

#78

I've got a decent amount of n95 (both 3M and HDX HD Brand) masks that we lucked into more than a significant amount of time ago. We are afraid to list them, at any price, because I'm afraid ebay/amazon will kill our listings at any price. I'm ready to ship them for free, of all costs, I just don't want my amazon "privileges" revoked. who do i give n95 masks too? edit: they are 2024 exp dates

What area do you live in? Like the other comment, best to donate locally and not delay with more shipping logistics. Search #GetMePPE or #PPEshortage on Twitter and you'll find a bunch, possibly where you are.

I'm in the Bay Area & Hospitals are ready to receive (a couple examples): https://vmcfoundation.org/covid19list/ https://www.facebook.com/ingrid.lim.56/posts/101583083580236...

Re: Amazon sellers ‘hijack’ listings to sell face masks despite new rules

#79
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So this means people like us would have the competitive advantage for these sorts of business opportunities.

Why aren't you doing it and making a killing (pun intentional)?

Ethics? Humanity?

Re: Amazon sellers ‘hijack’ listings to sell face masks despite new rules

#80
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but don't go putting words in other people's mouths. It's not "putting words in other people's mouths" to explicitly spell out the direct consequences of what they're saying. When the price of a good spikes to several times its everyday market price or even higher, it's reasonable to assume that it's gone up by enough to make it inaccessible to a meaningful portion of the usual customer base.

For a disposable item like face masks, consumers would gladly pay 3x the pre-pandemic mask prices for their own personal use. The buyers who aren’t willing to pay 3x are hoarders and resellers, because there’s no guarantee enough people will pay 5x or 6x for it to be worth it. If the manufacturer prices are allowed to rise, the profits incentivize increased manufacturing. If the prices aren’t allowed to rise, the rat…

"Free market advocates instead believe the poor should get essential goods last, if there's still enough profit in it."

That fits your narrative, no?

Free market ultimately amounts to how much can we push people's capacity to suffer in order to profit the Capitalists, can we raise the price of water, can we raise the price of food, can we work people 20 hours a day, will they still work if they can't afford clothes, can we psychological convince them not to riot and so remove even more of their humanity; will the poor still work if life-expectancy is down to 60 years, howabout 59?

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