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NetHack 3.6.6

nethack.org

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Re: NetHack 3.6.6

#71

Post by schoen »

pmoriarty wrote: post #67

I love Nethack, and have returned to it time and time again since the 80's. However, much as I love it, for about 6 years now I've been drawn away to Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup[1], which has in some ways evolved past Nethack. One of the main draws to DCSS for me has been its autoexplore feature, which makes exploring the dungeon much less of a chore than it was in Nethack. It also has much better use of color in text m…

> The interactions with gods, shops, and pets tends to be richer and more complex in Nethack. The things you can do to and with items is as well.

Agreed about all of these except for gods. In NetHack you can't easily choose your god during the game (though you can sometimes not-easily choose your god during the game) and the difference in behavior from one god to the next is minimal. In Crawl, you can usually choose your god and thereby get different abilities, status effects, and effectively mini-conduct challenges based on what each god disapproves of. I think that's more interesting than the NetHack religion stuff, although it's true that NetHack has a slightly more complex model of gods' feelings toward you.

I've been gradually writing up a document about differences between Crawl and NetHack and I think the items behavior you mention is a huge one.

NetHack has a substantial minigame about item identification, plus various ways that items can be damaged, destroyed, or modified (beyond magical enchantment), plus ways that they can be combined with one another (including an entire "alchemy" system of mixing potions to get other potions), plus ways that one item can be turned into another item. Also, some items give status effects when carried, while others must be equipped, or applied or invoked. Also, some items have a nonintuitive or humorous use -- one of many examples is that some harmful potions can be used offensively by throwing them at monsters or by hitting the monsters with them. Monsters can also often make intelligent use of items against you.

In Crawl, every item has essentially one and only one appropriate use, and every item is immediately fully identified when used or equipped. (Item identification is still not completely trivial because some items are harmful to use, or are consumed by use, so you might not want to use everything you find.) Items can never be permanently changed¹ except by enchantment or curses, and items can't be damaged, nor can they be destroyed except by using them up or dropping them into deep water or lava. Also, monsters make comparatively minimal use of items and don't pick them up.

You can see where various people might prefer one style or the other!

¹ The one counterexample I can think of is the dragon-slaying lance that becomes more powerful every time it kills a dragon.

Re: NetHack 3.6.6

#72

Post by bmn__ »

csours wrote: post #29
OskarS wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check it out: ssh nethack@alt.org EDIT: no audio, obviously, but you can send mail to players you're spectating

OT: Why can't I put ssh://nethack@alt.org in my browser? Why isn't the browser a ssh client? I'm sure there's an extension or some such, and I know there are a lot of admin portals that have ssh accessible from the browser. edit: for instance here's is one such extension: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/secure-shell-app/p...

> Why can't I put ssh://nethack@alt.org in my browser?

Try KDE Konqueror, see http://enwp.org/KIO

Re: NetHack 3.6.6

#73

Post by grawprog »

Just wanted to say, the nethack and unnethack android ports have probably the best controls and interface you could have for a roguelike as complex as them. They're smooth and easy to play, well as far as nethack goes and honestly probably my preferred way to play them these days.

And as far as mobile games go, can't think of any others that offer so much depth, gameplay and replayability without iap's and bullshit for free.

Sorry if this sounds like an ad, but I love nethack and getting to carry it around in my pocket and have it play well is just fucking awesome.

Re: NetHack 3.6.6

#74

Post by pmoriarty »

schoen wrote: post #71
pmoriarty wrote: post #67

I love Nethack, and have returned to it time and time again since the 80's. However, much as I love it, for about 6 years now I've been drawn away to Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup[1], which has in some ways evolved past Nethack. One of the main draws to DCSS for me has been its autoexplore feature, which makes exploring the dungeon much less of a chore than it was in Nethack. It also has much better use of color in text m…

> The interactions with gods, shops, and pets tends to be richer and more complex in Nethack. The things you can do to and with items is as well. Agreed about all of these except for gods. In NetHack you can't easily choose your god during the game (though you can sometimes not-easily choose your god during the game) and the difference in behavior from one god to the next is minimal. In Crawl, you can usually choose…

"Agreed about all of these except for gods. In NetHack you can't easily choose your god during the game (though you can sometimes not-easily choose your god during the game) and the difference in behavior from one god to the next is minimal. In Crawl, you can usually choose your god and thereby get different abilities, status effects, and effectively mini-conduct challenges based on what each god disapproves of. I think that's more interesting than the NetHack religion stuff, although it's true that NetHack has a slightly more complex model of gods' feelings toward you."

In Nethack you can do a ton of different things at altars. In Crawl altars are useless except for converting to that god's religion. After your conversion you can pretty much safely ignore altars in Crawl unless you want to change your religion. The options are much greater in Nethack.

Re: NetHack 3.6.6

#75

Post by orbital-decay »

pmoriarty wrote: post #67

I love Nethack, and have returned to it time and time again since the 80's. However, much as I love it, for about 6 years now I've been drawn away to Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup[1], which has in some ways evolved past Nethack. One of the main draws to DCSS for me has been its autoexplore feature, which makes exploring the dungeon much less of a chore than it was in Nethack. It also has much better use of color in text m…

Yeah, in DCSS they certainly trade tactical depth and crazy combinations of Nethack for what they call streamlining, aggressively cutting features from the game. Autoexplore in particular feels to me like a plug for the lack of micro, which is less important in DCSS than in Nethack. Not to say one is better or worse than another - DCCS is a great entry point into the "big four" of roguelikes - they just follow different principles.

Re: NetHack 3.6.6

#76

Post by voldacar »

pmoriarty wrote: post #67

I love Nethack, and have returned to it time and time again since the 80's. However, much as I love it, for about 6 years now I've been drawn away to Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup[1], which has in some ways evolved past Nethack. One of the main draws to DCSS for me has been its autoexplore feature, which makes exploring the dungeon much less of a chore than it was in Nethack. It also has much better use of color in text m…

DCSS has definitely been dumbed down over the years which is kind of saddening. I remember it was really fun in the 2014-2015 era but I haven't really checked in since.

Path of Exile on the other hand has only gotten more and more baroque, which is awesome if you love the theorycrafting aspect of it

Re: NetHack 3.6.6

#77

Post by MaupitiBlue »

Yuioup wrote: post #31
picozeta wrote: post #30

It's famous in the roguelike world but I dislike that it is practically pretty much impossible to win without spoilers [0] (which means you have to read about it in wikis and co. to find a strategy that works). [0 I know there are some people who managed to ascend (win) without reading up, but they are probably in the < 0.01% so it's definitely not the norm.

Thank you! I've been giving up on Nethack for over 20 years because I can't figure out how to play this stupid game. After all this time it wasn't me.

33 years of frustration here.

Re: NetHack 3.6.6

#78

Post by omegaham »

Scarblac wrote: post #55
classified wrote: post #14

I am still a hardcore fan of Angband: https://rephial.org/ Different types of information (inventory, map, monster info, etc) can all be put in separate windows, so my screen is plastered with Angband windows when I play. Makes for great immersion, and the windows all retain their position and size between program starts. It may even be older than Nethack.

It's of course a similar game but they're so different. Angband is one of those games that are about endless grind, trying to get those rare item drops that allow you to descend a bit further by offering some form of elemental resistance you lacked. And then you can continue grinding. Also, later on, many fights with unique monsters with extremely powerful attacks. Nethack is much more about getting a collection of i…

This is the old way to play Angband, and consensus on the forums is that it's incorrect (not to mention extremely boring).

Rather, you want to dive as deep as possible, pick your battles very carefully, and get loot off the ground or from occasional fightable monsters. Hilariously, people have found that Ironman play (never leaving the dungeon, and always descending) is easier because it forces you to play like this.

When grinding, you will still run into out-of-depth monsters that will wreck you, so there is no way to play the game safe.

Re: NetHack 3.6.6

#79

Post by Scarblac »

omegaham wrote: post #78
Scarblac wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's of course a similar game but they're so different. Angband is one of those games that are about endless grind, trying to get those rare item drops that allow you to descend a bit further by offering some form of elemental resistance you lacked. And then you can continue grinding. Also, later on, many fights with unique monsters with extremely powerful attacks. Nethack is much more about getting a collection of i…

This is the old way to play Angband, and consensus on the forums is that it's incorrect (not to mention extremely boring). Rather, you want to dive as deep as possible, pick your battles very carefully, and get loot off the ground or from occasional fightable monsters. Hilariously, people have found that Ironman play (never leaving the dungeon, and always descending) is easier because it forces you to play like this.…

That's probably true, but I don't like that cautious way of playing where you avoid the monsters. I want to kill them all,or most of them anyway. Of course that doesn't have to be too cautious all the time as that does become boring, there's something in between of course.

Re: NetHack 3.6.6

#80

Post by zoeey123 »

orbital-decay wrote: post #75
pmoriarty wrote: post #67

I love Nethack, and have returned to it time and time again since the 80's. However, much as I love it, for about 6 years now I've been drawn away to Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup[1], which has in some ways evolved past Nethack. One of the main draws to DCSS for me has been its autoexplore feature, which makes exploring the dungeon much less of a chore than it was in Nethack. It also has much better use of color in text m…

Yeah, in DCSS they certainly trade tactical depth and crazy combinations of Nethack for what they call streamlining, aggressively cutting features from the game. Autoexplore in particular feels to me like a plug for the lack of micro, which is less important in DCSS than in Nethack. Not to say one is better or worse than another - DCCS is a great entry point into the "big four" of roguelikes - they just follow differ…

What are the other 3?
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