Earlier quoted context omitted.
I thought it was a routing problem -- the one street half bisected a peninsula, so if you want to get from one side to the other it wouldn't mean "driving down the next street over," it would mean driving down twice its length and dealing with traffic at the squeeze point. Did I misunderstand the geometry?
Yes you misunderstood - you can cross the street at many points but not drive along it
No ‘carmageddon’ on auto-free Market Street: study shows bikes and buses benefit
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Re: No ‘carmageddon’ on auto-free Market Street: study shows bikes and buses benefit
#72I'm always wondering what about people with disabilities, older people with problems with walking, pregnant women, families with four kids, etc. Sometimes the public transport for such people is problematic and using taxi all the time is too expensive. Total banning cars makes a great space for the healthy ones, the rest is happily ignored. And this is sad. I like decreasing the number of cars, not forbidding them at…
No one plans to.
That aside, cars also pose major problems to all those groups you mention. Elderly people feel unsafe driving and unsafe walking because of cars. They're the primary victims of car-caused accidents. Elderly people in bad health can also be a danger to others when driving.
Kids cannot go anywhere on their own - in large parts because traffic is a killer for them, too. This places a large burden on families, as the parents need to drive them everyplace.
Nearly all of the groups you mention would be better served if you'd remove cars and use the space to improve public transit. For example using dedicated bus lines - improving both speed and - more importantly - reliability. Or build tram lines.
Re: No ‘carmageddon’ on auto-free Market Street: study shows bikes and buses benefit
#73The linked article (1) says the redesign will have "sidewalk level bike lanes". If there's a way for local people to comment on this, please encourage these to be changed to in-between-road-and-sidewalk level. (Or road level with a continuous kerb in between). This makes it much, much easier for pedestrians not to accidentally wander into the lane. (2) 1 https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Car-free-Market-...…
Indeed. We have pavement level cycle tracks in the part of East London I live in - I tend to stick to the roads since if if I'm doing 16-18MPH and a pedestrian wanders into the cycleway, it gets tricky. I absolutely do not blame the pedestrians - its all too easy to do.
Something I found in Japan was that it seemed like abnormal number of people rode bicycles on fairly busy sidewalks. I found I needed to really train myself not to change directions without looking behind me in case there was bicycle back there.
Re: No ‘carmageddon’ on auto-free Market Street: study shows bikes and buses benefit
#74I'm always wondering what about people with disabilities, older people with problems with walking, pregnant women, families with four kids, etc. Sometimes the public transport for such people is problematic and using taxi all the time is too expensive. Total banning cars makes a great space for the healthy ones, the rest is happily ignored. And this is sad. I like decreasing the number of cars, not forbidding them at…
We're talking about San Francisco here.
Re: No ‘carmageddon’ on auto-free Market Street: study shows bikes and buses benefit
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
Massive? That's a pretty weak negative here. Cycling and walking feels good when there's no car around, public transport is a great time to relax, read a book or meet people. And it's only one street, people can still drive close to where they want to be.
At -20 feels great...
Re: No ‘carmageddon’ on auto-free Market Street: study shows bikes and buses benefit
#76I'm always wondering what about people with disabilities, older people with problems with walking, pregnant women, families with four kids, etc. Sometimes the public transport for such people is problematic and using taxi all the time is too expensive. Total banning cars makes a great space for the healthy ones, the rest is happily ignored. And this is sad. I like decreasing the number of cars, not forbidding them at…
A world designed around cars is extremely hostile to the elderly, disabled, and children.
Re: No ‘carmageddon’ on auto-free Market Street: study shows bikes and buses benefit
#77Chicago tried this decades ago with the State Street Mall project [1]. It turned out to be an overall flop, with stores seeing reduced traffic, and by 1993 it was gone and good riddance. As a pedestrian, I hated it when I worked downtown. Maybe they'll do something on Market Street that will work better, or perhaps it might be a better fit there than in Chicago, but I wish them luck, because they're going to need it.…
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Anyway, I live in Vienna where we have had pedestrianized shopping streets since 1971. Before every single project there is a huge discussion that this will kill all commerce, and in these 49 years that has never happened -- quite on the contrary. These projects are so successful and popular that recently even the chamber of commerce, previously a huge opponent, called for more of them.
Is the US that different? Maybe. Or maybe it just needs its own learning process.
Re: No ‘carmageddon’ on auto-free Market Street: study shows bikes and buses benefit
#78>His conclusion: When cities shut streets off to cars, people drive less. The myth of a “carmageddon”-style traffic jam is apparently overblown. This seems to completely ignore the fact that what actually has occured here is that the reduction of drivers is a negative for those drivers. Those drivers now either have to cycle or use public transport instead of their cars or have to move. That might seem positive to th…
The people who switched are the people at the margin. Previously, taking their cars was slightly more convenient, now it's slightly less. Anyone who would be massively inconvenienced is still driving, because they still have that option.
Re: No ‘carmageddon’ on auto-free Market Street: study shows bikes and buses benefit
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes you misunderstood - you can cross the street at many points but not drive along it
That makes much more sense, thanks! Less useful for the pedestrians -- but also less apocalyptic for traffic.
Re: No ‘carmageddon’ on auto-free Market Street: study shows bikes and buses benefit
#80I'm always wondering what about people with disabilities, older people with problems with walking, pregnant women, families with four kids, etc. Sometimes the public transport for such people is problematic and using taxi all the time is too expensive. Total banning cars makes a great space for the healthy ones, the rest is happily ignored. And this is sad. I like decreasing the number of cars, not forbidding them at…
Back when I lived in a town that had a car-free street, it seemed like the people at the retirement home on that mall had it fairly good. Even the folks with limited mobility were still out on the sidewalk, living in the world and interacting with the wider community. Compare to my grandmother who's living in an area with no sidewalks. She basically never goes outside - can't go outside - except for brief moments when going to and from the car. It's a life without much sunlight. It's bleak.
My suspicion is that a lot of the fewer cars whataboutism comes from having never known anything different, and therefore being stuck imagining that a world with fewer cars would be the kind of environment they're used to, minus the cars, and not much else. It can be so much more than that, though. It's amazing how much great stuff a community has to forego in order to make room for all the cars. They take up so much space. Physically, but also financially and psychologically.