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Nearly All US Universities Lose Money on Sports

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Re: Nearly All US Universities Lose Money on Sports

#71
post #50

That's just appalling. In Europe, AFAIK there is usually no such thing as college/university sports--competition-wise, that is (aside of the known the Oxford/Cambridge rowing competition.) I just recently discovered the following site, which just makes me sad: http://www.sacbee.com/statepay/?name=papadimitriou Why are UC-Berkeley and UCLA head coaches earning more than 8 times as much as Christos Papadimitriou? Grant…

> Why are UC-Berkeley and UCLA head coaches earning more than 8 times as much as Christos Papadimitriou?

Because there are donors willing to pay the salaries of those coaches and there aren't donors willing to pay Papadimitriou more money. And, you can actually take money from big-money athletics and pay for acadmics.

You can argue that this shouldn't be all you like, but it is. The money that goes to those coaches can't be spent on CS. If anything, it actually provides more money for CS.

I've listened to John Hennessey, Stanford's president, walk through all this. He thinks that Stanford's athletic program makes money for its academic program.

If you think that he's wrong, please provide details so I can ask him. (And it better be something that isn't currently in this thread, as he went through the equivalent and more.)

Re: Nearly All US Universities Lose Money on Sports

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If what they pay is less than what the university spends on them, in what sense are they paying to improve education?

And even if they paid more back thant the university invested, it still has not to do anything with education. It is then just a part-time money making scheme to keep the university alive. Since such investments into the sports business do not have anything to do with the core business of the university, education, they could they could easily invest into other kinds of non-educational but profitable businesses like,…

the core business of the university, education

Bzz, wrong. Education is a college's job. A university's core business is research. Education is just a part-time money making scheme to keep the university alive.

Re: Nearly All US Universities Lose Money on Sports

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They pay for the university's existence.

If what they pay is less than what the university spends on them, in what sense are they paying to improve education?

You are oversimplifying the educational system to a very large degree (pun intended).

Education isn't about the 'information', it's about the collective sum of benefits that a university provides. If it were strictly about the education (courses, books, etc.) there would be no purpose -- most of it can be found for free online.

University is about the whole package, of which a strong alumni network is often a major piece. Without a strong sports program, many of these schools would lose a large fraction of their alumni's attention - and I don't mean dollars and cents. To use a previous commenter:

Ding ding ding. I went to a D3 school for football, and when considering a possible MBA, something I was looking at half jokingly, but half legitimately, was whether the school was large - because I thought it would make watching sports on TV for the rest of my life, and having true attachment, a lot more fun. Undoubtedly, as I progress further in my career, that fervor would have grown with team success, and also made my attachment more real - while my current alma mater (Chapman University in Southern California) - would have fallen away from consciousness with no legitimate way to grab my attention. Whether I make a donation to any school in the future is up for debate, and I am now not likely to get an MBA based on many of the points raised here and elsewhere - but the point made on this comment hits the nail on the head. I find it extremely unlikely that I will ever donate to my small private school in Southern California - because the thoughts of how it's helped me depart with every passing second, and they have no way to get it back.

This obviously leads to a weakening of the school on a whole, in terms of future enrollment and overall reputation, leading to a decline in the quality of education.

Re: Nearly All US Universities Lose Money on Sports

#74
post #67
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If real learning occurs while playing sports, then why isn't every student at a university allowed on a sports team? If it's so essential to education, then it should be part of the curriculum. And are soft skills, discipline, teamwork, and long-term dedication not things that people learn running clubs, competing at quiz bowl, going hiking, hacking software in their free time? Then why is there such disproportionate…

Not everyone can be on the 12 person, premier D-I basketball team. However, I am unaware of any university that doesn't allow pickup games or club teams by all people. No one in this entire thread has advocated disproportionate funding for sports. No one. Not once. So that argument is just grasping at something that doesn't exist. Yes, soft skills + the other skills can be learned with running, quiz bowl, hiking, etc…

This whole thread is about the disproportionate funding that varsity sports get (especially football) compared to other things on campus, such as clubs, club sports, and academics.

You were replying to someone who said that academic scholarships would probably be a better investment than sports scholarships by saying "Not every lesson or piece of information can be learned from a book or in a classroom. Good luck getting soft skills there." That implies to me that you disagree with the comment you're replying to, and think that varsity sports deserve the disproportionate funding that they are getting.

If that was not your intent, I apologize for misconstruing you, but you could be clearer in your comment.

I think that we're actually in agreement here. I think that varsity sports get too much time and attention paid to them; I think that clubs and club sports get less support as a consequence. I don't think that athletics should exist at a college, but I do think that it should be in the same category as any other extra curricular, not some semi-pro thing that drains so many resources at the expense of all other extra-curricular activities.

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