Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets • Hacker News Board

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#71

Post by theredlion » Sat, Feb 15, 2020, 2:10 PM UTC

badfrog wrote: post #64

theredlion wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a lot of people. This is based on conversations with those involved in the hiring process at various companies. They are proud of it and see it as not only a plus, but a social benefit, which causes people to be very boastfully vocal in social situations Very strange time we live in. I do agree with your second paragraph, but this isn't regarding anything that has happened to me personally

> They are proud of it and see it as not only a plus, but a social benefit, which causes people to be very boastfully vocal in social situations If the companies are proud of it, wouldn't they be boasting in the media? I've never heard about anything like this. What I have heard of is lowering the bar for minorities to be offered an interview and educational opportunities offered to only minorities.

It's not the companies that are proud of it per se. Not directly at least. The people who are proud of it are the ones directly involved, typically lower downs in HR or the public facing department.

The message gets translated when coming from the top down or when going into the public. It turns into something to the effect of how inclusive and diverse the company is. The higher ups especially turn a blind eye (or are in complete denial) of the actual practices which happen.

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#72

Post by theredlion » Sat, Feb 15, 2020, 2:12 PM UTC

senordevnyc wrote: post #63

theredlion wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a lot of people. This is based on conversations with those involved in the hiring process at various companies. They are proud of it and see it as not only a plus, but a social benefit, which causes people to be very boastfully vocal in social situations Very strange time we live in. I do agree with your second paragraph, but this isn't regarding anything that has happened to me personally

Oh, we’re trading anecdotes? Well, I know a lot of people, including many involved in hiring at various large tech companies, including myself. I’m sure they have programs to encourage diversity in hiring, but I seriously doubt they’re telling you they “blatantly discriminate” against white men and that white men have to perform much better in an interview in order to be hired. That’s an incomplete and simplistic sto…

Nobody's begging you to believe me. I'm just typing what I know from those involved

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#73

Post by DasIch » Sat, Feb 15, 2020, 2:12 PM UTC

quelltext wrote: post #37

grumple wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It includes people from all over the world. US skilled salaries are usually 2x+ (not just for tech, but also things like healthcare) salaries in Europe. Remember they have social safety nets and lower costs for things like education and healthcare, we do not. Also this list has a very small sample size, and very few people from big tech, otherwise the pay would skew significantly higher.

Uhm, safety nets etc. do not really offset this. That's because Europe also has higher taxes though/autodeductions. When someone in Germany casually says 50k per year pre tax, they typically mean pre deductions (tax and social/health insurance) and the effective received money is more around 25k per year. People in the US underestimate how much of ones salary a European has to give up for that safety net.

50k per year pre tax in Germany, would end up being 30k after taxes. If you're married, you'd get substantial tax benefits and there are also benefits, if you have children.

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#74

Post by komali2 » Sat, Feb 15, 2020, 2:13 PM UTC

theredlion wrote: post #54

senordevnyc wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any evidence for this? Have you seen data covering hiring evals for many different candidates? Or is this just your own bias telling a story based on anecdotes and rumors? I’m not saying this never happens, but it’s much easier to tell yourself that the reason you didn’t get a job was because of some unfair factor beyond your control than to admit maybe you just failed to meet the bar.

I know a lot of people. This is based on conversations with those involved in the hiring process at various companies. They are proud of it and see it as not only a plus, but a social benefit, which causes people to be very boastfully vocal in social situations Very strange time we live in. I do agree with your second paragraph, but this isn't regarding anything that has happened to me personally

What you're talking about would cause a shitstorm of Everest proportions if it came to light in any of the bay area companies I've worked at.

I know a lot of people too.

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#75

Post by cdoxsey » Sat, Feb 15, 2020, 2:13 PM UTC

grumple wrote: post #17

Bogdanp wrote: post #3

I know these people willingly shared this information in public, but, for whatever reason, this compilation makes me uncomfortable. EDIT to clarify: what makes me uncomfortable about this is not the broad range of salaries. I don't find that surprising at all. It's gathering all this information together and associating it with people's names (and complete bios!) that bothers me. Some of them may find they want to de…

It includes people from all over the world. US skilled salaries are usually 2x+ (not just for tech, but also things like healthcare) salaries in Europe. Remember they have social safety nets and lower costs for things like education and healthcare, we do not. Also this list has a very small sample size, and very few people from big tech, otherwise the pay would skew significantly higher.

The US has social safety nets.

Nearly half the federal budget is spent on Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. And there are numerous other programs: unemployment, housing assistance, snap, etc.

There are also state and local programs as well as private charities.

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#76

Post by scarface74 » Sat, Feb 15, 2020, 2:16 PM UTC

j7ake wrote: post #44

senordevnyc wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people certainly seem to think so. I’d be a little surprised myself if the answer was no. Anecdotally speaking, they certainly seem underrepresented, but I’m less sure about current pay disparity.

Thanks for the info, I guess I should read more into it and educate myself.

I really hate meta discussions, but that being said, I’m going to do it anyway.

It’s rare on a discussion forum that a thread goes from

- righteous indignation

- clarifying non insulting reply

- reply with a genuine question

- reply with a genuine answer.

- the original poster admits that they should learn more.

I had to commend both of you.

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#77

Post by komali2 » Sat, Feb 15, 2020, 2:16 PM UTC

quelltext wrote: post #37

grumple wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It includes people from all over the world. US skilled salaries are usually 2x+ (not just for tech, but also things like healthcare) salaries in Europe. Remember they have social safety nets and lower costs for things like education and healthcare, we do not. Also this list has a very small sample size, and very few people from big tech, otherwise the pay would skew significantly higher.

Uhm, safety nets etc. do not really offset this. That's because Europe also has higher taxes though/autodeductions. When someone in Germany casually says 50k per year pre tax, they typically mean pre deductions (tax and social/health insurance) and the effective received money is more around 25k per year. People in the US underestimate how much of ones salary a European has to give up for that safety net.

If we're going to calculate like that I think it's only fair to calculate in the average American's medical cost including insurance premiums which can put quite the dent in effective take home pay.

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#78

Post by throw0099 » Sat, Feb 15, 2020, 2:18 PM UTC

senordevnyc wrote: post #63

theredlion wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a lot of people. This is based on conversations with those involved in the hiring process at various companies. They are proud of it and see it as not only a plus, but a social benefit, which causes people to be very boastfully vocal in social situations Very strange time we live in. I do agree with your second paragraph, but this isn't regarding anything that has happened to me personally

Oh, we’re trading anecdotes? Well, I know a lot of people, including many involved in hiring at various large tech companies, including myself. I’m sure they have programs to encourage diversity in hiring, but I seriously doubt they’re telling you they “blatantly discriminate” against white men and that white men have to perform much better in an interview in order to be hired. That’s an incomplete and simplistic sto…

Referral bonuses for women and minorities, and especially female minorities, are 5x what they are for white men at my company. They may not say "go discriminate against white men," but they certainly say "we will pay you a lot more to get us somebody who isn't a white man." I'm someone who really likes having diverse engineering teams, but that sort of practice is pretty distasteful and obviously not meritocratic.

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#79

Post by badfrog » Sat, Feb 15, 2020, 2:18 PM UTC

theredlion wrote: post #71

badfrog wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are proud of it and see it as not only a plus, but a social benefit, which causes people to be very boastfully vocal in social situations If the companies are proud of it, wouldn't they be boasting in the media? I've never heard about anything like this. What I have heard of is lowering the bar for minorities to be offered an interview and educational opportunities offered to only minorities.

It's not the companies that are proud of it per se. Not directly at least. The people who are proud of it are the ones directly involved, typically lower downs in HR or the public facing department. The message gets translated when coming from the top down or when going into the public. It turns into something to the effect of how inclusive and diverse the company is. The higher ups especially turn a blind eye (or ar…

A handful of low level employees deliberately violating company policy is very far from your original statement of"several large companies in my area which, due to diversity pressure, blatantly discriminate"

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#80

Post by scarface74 » Sat, Feb 15, 2020, 2:21 PM UTC

theredlion wrote: post #57

iso1210 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My company did a pan-company investigation into how much people were being paid, and found that in every job title Women were being paid on average 30% less then men. With that in hand it's clear that it makes more sense to employ women.

Unless your company is blatantly paying women less, which is wrong, then there are more factors involved than simply sex and pay grade. Your second paragraph is completely logically disconnected from your first

It doesn’t have to be blatant or any one person acting in bad faith. That’s the whole meaning of systemic $x-ism.

It’s a well known phenomenon that men will apply for a job if they are only 60% qualified but women only apply for jobs for which they are 100% qualified (https://hbr.org/2014/08/why-women-dont-apply-for-jobs-unless...). Also women don’t negotiate as hard.