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U.S. wants the EU to accept chemical-washed chicken as part of trade deal

latimes.com

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Re: U.S. wants the EU to accept chemical-washed chicken as part of trade deal

#71

Post by Will_Parker »

jfengel wrote: post #37
reaperducer wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it's a poverty food I'm not sure what this means. Are you trying to say that poor people shouldn't be allowed to eat?

I think they're saying that poor people shouldn't be coerced by a subsidy system to eat food that has to be chemically treated to remove pathogens, and which causes animal suffering which most people would reject if it weren't kept hidden. There are plenty of ways for poor people to eat healthy diets without harming animals. It's a perverse incentive of the system that grows vast quantities of poor-quality corn and s…

> The US in particular is wedded to the notion that meat is essential and primary food, and it set up its entire agriculture industry to making that cheap

Nothing is particular about the US here, humans are omnivores whose optimal diet for health contains both meat and plants.

Re: U.S. wants the EU to accept chemical-washed chicken as part of trade deal

#72

Post by drywater »

sharkmerry wrote: post #51

Some stats. EU - ~500 Million people. "In the EU, over 91,000 salmonellosis cases are reported each year." [1] US. ~330 Million People. "CDC estimates Salmonella bacteria cause about 1.35 million infections, 26,500 hospitalizations, and 420 deaths in the United States every year. Food is the source for most of these illnesses." [2] 1- https://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/topics/topic/salmonella 2- https://www.cdc.gov/salmon…

Eastern Europe under-reports these cases for sure.

Re: U.S. wants the EU to accept chemical-washed chicken as part of trade deal

#73

Post by magduf »

mech1234 wrote: post #48
JakeTheAndroid wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is the chemical wash isn't the inherent issue here. It's the fact that they need to be chemically washed in the first place. Due to factory farming, chickens live in piles of their own poop, and with that comes tons of other unhealthy side effects. To combat that, in the US we simply give them a chemical bath. The issue at hand is that the EU doesn't want low quality chicken entering the market becau…

Seems to me like the real motivation is defending their own agricultural industry. American chicken is cheaper and likely just as good. The health claims are weak, everyone can understand protectionism, but it is often masked behind other claimed goals. The data on salmonella is not super solid, but points to higher levels in the U.S. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47440562

Considering that salmonella is far, far worse in the US than in the EU, your claim that American chicken is "likely just as good" is obviously false.

Re: U.S. wants the EU to accept chemical-washed chicken as part of trade deal

#74

Post by gambiting »

mech1234 wrote: post #48
JakeTheAndroid wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is the chemical wash isn't the inherent issue here. It's the fact that they need to be chemically washed in the first place. Due to factory farming, chickens live in piles of their own poop, and with that comes tons of other unhealthy side effects. To combat that, in the US we simply give them a chemical bath. The issue at hand is that the EU doesn't want low quality chicken entering the market becau…

Seems to me like the real motivation is defending their own agricultural industry. American chicken is cheaper and likely just as good. The health claims are weak, everyone can understand protectionism, but it is often masked behind other claimed goals. The data on salmonella is not super solid, but points to higher levels in the U.S. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47440562

>>Seems to me like the real motivation is defending their own agricultural industry. American chicken is cheaper and likely just as good.

Well...if you stop and think about it for a second - of course it is. If our, European farmers have to abide by certain animal welfare standards and the American ones don't, then of course American meat will be cheaper. Equally, I wouldn't want to eat chicken meat from China or Vietnam - their animal standards are nowhere near ours, so why should they be sold here? If Americans improve their standards then they are welcome to our markets.

Re: U.S. wants the EU to accept chemical-washed chicken as part of trade deal

#75

Post by amorroxic »

cooljacob204 wrote: post #70
sharkmerry wrote: post #51

Some stats. EU - ~500 Million people. "In the EU, over 91,000 salmonellosis cases are reported each year." [1] US. ~330 Million People. "CDC estimates Salmonella bacteria cause about 1.35 million infections, 26,500 hospitalizations, and 420 deaths in the United States every year. Food is the source for most of these illnesses." [2] 1- https://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/topics/topic/salmonella 2- https://www.cdc.gov/salmon…

This is an estimate vs reported cases. Not exactly good numbers to compare.

Genuinely interested in good numbers to compare then, any chance to elaborate?

Re: U.S. wants the EU to accept chemical-washed chicken as part of trade deal

#76

Post by chriswwweb »

rjzzleep wrote: post #24
moksly wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they do, I hope they make sure that it has to be labelled on the food. They do that with a lot of things, and then it’s really easy not to buy it.

That's the whole point of the trade deals though. It wouldn't be labelled properly, since it would be considered unfair competition.

But it would be labelled as chicken coming from the US, this makes it easy enough to avoid!?

Already today, I always read on the label to find out from what country the meat I'm about to buy comes, I always prefer local over imported as I think it is something little I can do to reduce unnecessary emissions and would hence anyway not buy meat that comes from another continent, just to get it few cents cheaper

It is however often not possible when eating meat at restaurant for example :(

Re: U.S. wants the EU to accept chemical-washed chicken as part of trade deal

#77

Post by cooljacob204 »

amorroxic wrote: post #75
cooljacob204 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an estimate vs reported cases. Not exactly good numbers to compare.

Genuinely interested in good numbers to compare then, any chance to elaborate?

Actual reported numbers from both ends. But this is a tricky case because our culture, healthcare and governments are different.

I'm definitely not an expert on the matter but comparing an estimate vs a reported value is silly.

Re: U.S. wants the EU to accept chemical-washed chicken as part of trade deal

#78

Post by tomonl »

cooljacob204 wrote: post #70
sharkmerry wrote: post #51

Some stats. EU - ~500 Million people. "In the EU, over 91,000 salmonellosis cases are reported each year." [1] US. ~330 Million People. "CDC estimates Salmonella bacteria cause about 1.35 million infections, 26,500 hospitalizations, and 420 deaths in the United States every year. Food is the source for most of these illnesses." [2] 1- https://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/topics/topic/salmonella 2- https://www.cdc.gov/salmon…

This is an estimate vs reported cases. Not exactly good numbers to compare.

If we look at hospitalizations or deaths the difference is still significant.

> Outbreaks due to Salmonella are on the rise, with S. Enteritidis causing one in six food-borne disease outbreaks in 2016. Salmonella bacteria were the most common cause of food-borne outbreaks (22.3%), an increase of 11.5% compared to 2015. They caused the highest burden in terms of numbers of hospitalisations (1,766; 45.6% of all hospitalised cases) and of deaths (10; 50% of all deaths among outbreak cases).

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/news-events/salmonella-cases-n...

Re: U.S. wants the EU to accept chemical-washed chicken as part of trade deal

#79

Post by joshuaissac »

donatj wrote: post #22
tschellenbach wrote: post #9

What's the health impact of the chemical-washed chickens?

To quote the article: > It’s vinegar, essentially. To say that’s unsafe or not to be used, we don’t think there’s a basis for that in sound science. If you're fine with using vinegar elsewhere in food, you should be fine with this.

EU member states put chlorine in their water supply, too, but chlorine itself was never the problem. Chlorine washing can be used to hide problems further up the supply chain, so if vinegar washing enables the same, it should also be disallowed.
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