Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

strongtowns.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 324 posts

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#71

Post by Polylactic_acid »

MiracleUser wrote: post #65
Polylactic_acid wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The price of rail is pretty good when you consider the capacity. That single rail line is replacing at least 6 lanes of highway and would get people to their destination safer and faster with less air pollution which is a major issue they are trying to tackle.

(ime) Trains only get you to your destination faster if your destination is a train station

In a high density area like a city its basically always faster. Also faster if you are going long distances and can benefit from the 200km/h+ speeds.

Probably doesn't work in some urban sprawl American suburb but for more sensible layouts its the best option. Also the best for the environment.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#72

Post by closeparen »

WhompingWindows wrote: post #25

Are expensive roads really needed? What if we see a gradual decline in roadway expenditures in the USA, transitioning our economy to involve less driving and more work from home, deliveries via drone/efficient vehicle, promote self-sufficiency, not to mention biking, walking, trains, etc...my point is maybe we won't need/use roads as much as we do now. One would hope so, but it seems our VMT is going up over time whi…

Road wear is dominated by trucks, and we are definitely still buying stuff.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#73

Post by justinator »

mumblemumble wrote: post #40
Polylactic_acid wrote: post #20

I'm planning to live a car free life soon. I'll be moving in to the city so almost everything is within walking distance and just about everything is accessable via public transport. The only thing I haven't been able work out is how I will continue to go mtn biking since bikes aren't allowed on the bus. But I just can't justify the massive expense of owning a car and a car park for one activity.

Mountain biking is one of the things I gave up when I moved to the city. I thought that maybe I'd occasionally rent a car and drive out to a state park, but what I quickly discovered was that, once driving stopped being a part of my daily life, the idea of regularly driving out to a forest preserve lost its palatability. Largely because I am no longer inured to driving, so any plan for how to spend my leisure time th…

Consider doing multi-day trips from your front door during the weekends (bikepacking).

I used to live in Denver and never understood why people would find the need to drive 10 miles to the nearest trails when you could just ride to them. Then I realized, once you're done with those initial 10 miles, you could link up routes that covered practically the entire rest of the state.

Now I'm writing a guidebook on those routes.

Bummer about buses not accepting bikes - that sounds crazy to me. They just don't have room underneath or a bike rack up front? I can hardly understand how that could be true!

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#74

Post by jhloa2 »

dillonmckay wrote: post #29

Are there any sustainable road construction technologies and materials that do not rely on petrochemicals?

Although most modern roads do tend to use petroleum products, the asphalt is actually remarkably sustainable as almost all of it is recycled: http://www.asphaltpavement.org/recycling.

It seems like it would be tough to move to another type of material that would actually be more environmentally friendly after considering all the extra maintenance required for a less durable but more environmentally friendly construction.

As others have mentioned, it seems like the long term solution is to move to a less car-dependent society.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#75

Post by geddy »

dougweltman wrote: post #7

This does not address a larger question: how much does a mile of road cost to keep ? This is the installed base question. Consider the amount of road that has been built out in the US relative to the populations that road is serving. Maintenance and expansion is paid out mainly from state and local taxes. That's an enormous civilizational overhead the US contends with, not to mention the economic cost of a large port…

Lots of shade thrown towards people living in suburbia on here. Maybe not everyone wants to live in a (rented) closet sized apartment in a major city, complete with all the noise pollution, actual pollution, crime rates, and a lingering piss-smell 24/7, and all for the low price of _more than owning a house_?

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#76

Post by niftich »

notatoad wrote: post #58
MiracleUser wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The suburbs will maintain their own roads before the bottom falls out. low income suburbs probably will not survive, but there's no law that says they cant have shitty roads that require a jeep to drive on

when the roads require a jeep to drive on, it's no longer a suburb - it's the country. the promise of the suburbs is that it's all the luxuries of city living, with all the space of rural living. Losing the amenities of the city is exactly how i would interpret "the bottom falling out"

Middle- to upper-middle-class suburbs will still exist, they'll just be a municipality a few miles over, where all the houses and roads are 25 years newer, and the long tail of opex costs hasn't quite hit as bad yet. It will, eventually.

If a suburb can attract some retail or office space or manufacturing, they can be like Irvine or Tysons or Bloomington -- the suburbs that have made it. Those that cannot will accumulate the same problems with fiscal sustainability that inner cities once did.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#77

Post by toast0 »

markbnj wrote: post #46
WhompingWindows wrote: post #25

Are expensive roads really needed? What if we see a gradual decline in roadway expenditures in the USA, transitioning our economy to involve less driving and more work from home, deliveries via drone/efficient vehicle, promote self-sufficiency, not to mention biking, walking, trains, etc...my point is maybe we won't need/use roads as much as we do now. One would hope so, but it seems our VMT is going up over time whi…

There are roads in our county in New Jersey that have been transitioned from paved back to gravel, presumably based on usage and the anticipated savings from maintaining gravel over asphalt. I'm not a civil engineer and I don't know what all the tradeoffs are, but it seems to me that we're either going to have to admit we can't afford so much paving, or we're going to have to agree to pay higher taxes.

The primary downside of gravel is reduced speed, additional downsides are probably some additional vehicle wear, and lower suitability for heavy vehicle. Also, it's louder, and flung gravel can be a hazard, and it's not great for bikes.

The upsides are reduced cost of building, maintenance, and equipment, and better water permiability. Reduced speeds can be a benefit depending on the application.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#78

Post by animalgonzales »

dougweltman wrote: post #7

This does not address a larger question: how much does a mile of road cost to keep ? This is the installed base question. Consider the amount of road that has been built out in the US relative to the populations that road is serving. Maintenance and expansion is paid out mainly from state and local taxes. That's an enormous civilizational overhead the US contends with, not to mention the economic cost of a large port…

also versus the cost of a mile of rail

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#79

Post by einpoklum »

ip26 wrote: post #50
ryanar wrote: post #2

I feel like I am missing something here, a mile of road in a rural area costs $1,500,000 to reconstruct? How do small towns afford to maintain their roads?? Perhaps there are many costs that don't inflate as the number of miles increases, like the equipment needed to break down and repave the roads?

There's always the humble dirt road, perhaps with a little crushed gravel. Regrading it periodically is not free but with low traffic levels dirt can be cheaper.

So, you're saying it can really be dirt cheap?

(... sorry, I couldn't pass up on that one.)

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#80

Post by phkahler »

geddy wrote: post #75
dougweltman wrote: post #7

This does not address a larger question: how much does a mile of road cost to keep ? This is the installed base question. Consider the amount of road that has been built out in the US relative to the populations that road is serving. Maintenance and expansion is paid out mainly from state and local taxes. That's an enormous civilizational overhead the US contends with, not to mention the economic cost of a large port…

Lots of shade thrown towards people living in suburbia on here. Maybe not everyone wants to live in a (rented) closet sized apartment in a major city, complete with all the noise pollution, actual pollution, crime rates, and a lingering piss-smell 24/7, and all for the low price of _more than owning a house_?

>> and all for the low price of _more than owning a house_?

I didnt read much judgement in th parent post, but it does imply suburbia is subsidized because it has higher infrastructure cost per dollar of tax revenue. The was a study on that very thing a couple years ago IIRC and they found the most solvent towns and cities are actually the higher density ones even if they are lower income areas.

Post reply on HN