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How to Kill a Startup Idea with Google Keyword Planner and AdWords: A Case Study

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Re: How to Kill a Startup Idea with Google Keyword Planner and AdWords: A Case Study

#71
I’ve always been annoyed with the fail fast model. The only group that benefits from fail fast are VCs looking for a big score. They push entrepreneurs to invalidate instead of teaching/helping them how to build a business. It’s all ass backwards.

But for the VC, if they see a hundred good ideas invalidated by bootstrapping founders, they save time and money.

The founders are the suckers if they listen to this bull crap. You still need to validate. But do it by actually trying to make the vision work, not by giving up at the first sign of trouble.

Re: How to Kill a Startup Idea with Google Keyword Planner and AdWords: A Case Study

#72

I wouldn't use Keyword Planner for keyword research data. The keywords that appear there are only being actively bid on. So keywords that have more search volume and no ads won't be included.

What are some good alternatives ?

Re: How to Kill a Startup Idea with Google Keyword Planner and AdWords: A Case Study

#74

I’ve always been annoyed with the fail fast model. The only group that benefits from fail fast are VCs looking for a big score. They push entrepreneurs to invalidate instead of teaching/helping them how to build a business. It’s all ass backwards. But for the VC, if they see a hundred good ideas invalidated by bootstrapping founders, they save time and money. The founders are the suckers if they listen to this bull c…

The only group that benefits from fail fast are VCs

Doesn't the entrepreneur also benefit if it keeps him from pursuing a business that will never work? Otherwise they may become a victim of the Sunk Cost Fallacy -- after investing so much time and money into their business, they don't want to give up.

The key, of course, is knowing if you really have a failing strategy, or if you just having devoted enough time/money into making it a success. And the VC can look at it more dispassionately than the inventor.

Re: How to Kill a Startup Idea with Google Keyword Planner and AdWords: A Case Study

#75
post #26

This startup also faces a fatal problem when users find a great music teacher, and then they just cut out the startup for future dealings with the teacher. They lose both the parents and the best teachers. Similar to those startups that pair you with a maid.

... or a soul mate, aka dating platforms.

Pairing people romantically is so hard to do that dating platforms can count on a long string of revenue from clients.

It's going to take many meetups before I find the woman of my dreams, but chances are pretty good that the first maid I get paired with will meet my needs (worst case, maybe I'll need to try one or two more), after a few successful visits, then I can offer to pay direct and cut out the middleman.

Re: How to Kill a Startup Idea with Google Keyword Planner and AdWords: A Case Study

#76
This is a very dangerous idea. It seems logical until you go and try it. The potential market is too small so you pass. Only to see the market blow up into billions of dollars that gets harvested by someone else. Do you think electric cars were that big an idea in July 2003 when Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning started Tesla?

It also doesn't factor when you commit to an idea you become an expert. Often that knowledge forces you to pivot and become successful. Would the founders of Justin.tv ever have founded Twitch if they'd never started?

Re: How to Kill a Startup Idea with Google Keyword Planner and AdWords: A Case Study

#77
post #21

So...to me this article illustrates the dramatic differences in objective and mentality between bootstrappers and VCs. This VC looks at this idea, figures out that in order to own the market and make $fuckton, they'd have to spend > $fuckton. Decides to bail. As a bootstrapper of businesses, I look at this case study and go "well yeah of course it'll take $fuckton because you're haven't focused on a narrow enough nic…

Had a similar experience running a consulting practice for a global software company. Our practice revenue was growing with profitably around 20% EBIT. Software sales where not growing as fast. As a result consulting was an increasing % of regional contribution income but at a lower margin. So my practice was lowering regional EBIT margin. We got told to slow down. I put an amazing guy in charge and resigned.

Millions of incremental profit... unwanted. Of course it's logical given shareholders, but remains strange all the same.

Re: How to Kill a Startup Idea with Google Keyword Planner and AdWords: A Case Study

#78
Seems like some of this analysis could have been done before building anything. I also wouldn’t model it as ongoing CPC costs indefinitely. If the product is good it should develop word of mouth and use other marketing channels.

I would love to see a similar analysis that was greenlit because CPC looked so profitable. (Maybe it exists, I don’t know.)

Re: How to Kill a Startup Idea with Google Keyword Planner and AdWords: A Case Study

#79
post #48
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ansel from PSL here. Absolutely. Because we're venture-backed and are spinning out venture-backed companies, we are limited to billion dollar ideas. It's not uncommon for us to kill great ideas that could "only" make tens of millions of dollars. We're hoping through blog posts like this and other means to be able to share more of them because we want those companies to exist, we're just not set up to create them!

> we are limited to billion dollar ideas How did matchmaking for music lessons get into the discussion as a billion dollar idea? Referrals for tutoring in any subject (math, reading, music, etc.) would be a bigger market, but even then it might not be a $1B company.

Well I was right there with you, thinking it was a completely shit idea, but a little math shows how it at least popped up on the radar (and I don't think its quite so bad myself after some thought):

100,000 music instructors, $60 per hour, at 365 days per year is roughly: $2.19 billion gross revenue per year-hour in the segment. Assuming, the average hours per day are like 3.5 (I can't imagine folks doing this are giving lessons for a full 8 hours per day, 5 days a week), that gives a total market of like: ~$7.65bn. Assuming they could earn a 20% stake in 100% of the market, that's like $1.53bn.

Looking at the numbers, I think there is likely more potential than they realized[1]. I would suspect that by and large, digital advertising is capturing almost none of the market as kinda proven by their analysis. Looking at how low the frequency of searches were compared to the sheer number of employed individuals tells me something is off as a whole with the analysis.

That is to say, digital advertising isn't showing the volume of or demand for musical teaching service because it's highly likely everyone believes it's incapable of doing so or adding value... That (driving the market online) is the problem to be solved in the space, because it sounds _hard_, and solving hard problems tends to be the way to make a lot of money. The other opportunity I would look at is, sort of from the other side: how to fix (what I assume to be likely) most music instructor's "underemployment" problems (i.e. inconsistent, few, or not enough hours). I imagine this angle would probably net more gross sign-ups as well since users (instructors) would be advertising the platform for you.

With all that said, you'd have to assume there is latent under-served demand (25-35%) in the market too to bother with anything I've said... that 25% is essentially what would be left over for others after you've captured the niche.

One last thought, for the VC since it looks like they're reading HN. Have you thought about doing retroactive market analysis where unicorns now exist to see what the market looked like then (e.g. short-term vacation rentals in ~2006)?

Might give you some strong signals for where there is potential...

[1] They are indeed a VC so it may not be in their best interest (time value of money, opportunity costs, etc)...

Edit: Adjust some bad arithmetic.

Re: How to Kill a Startup Idea with Google Keyword Planner and AdWords: A Case Study

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... or a soul mate, aka dating platforms.

Pairing people romantically is so hard to do that dating platforms can count on a long string of revenue from clients. It's going to take many meetups before I find the woman of my dreams, but chances are pretty good that the first maid I get paired with will meet my needs (worst case, maybe I'll need to try one or two more), after a few successful visits, then I can offer to pay direct and cut out the middleman.

Don't people usually cut out the middleman on dating apps straight away? From my experience, after the initial connection, and before the first meet, you usually exchange numbers, and continue through anything else but the dating app.

In that aspect, I don't see how it's different than pairing with a maid.

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