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Questions I would ask God about the game of Go

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Re: Questions I would ask God about the game of Go

#71

Post by saltyfamiliar »

Iv wrote: post #67
CydeWeys wrote: post #6

> Is go played anywhere else in the universe, and was it discovered by chance there? > What openings do aliens play? I love these questions about if anyone else in the universe is playing Go. My gut response would be yes -- it's a simple enough game (regular game grid of any size roughly 5x5 on up, one type of piece, two players take turns alternating placing pieces, and any that are surrounded are removed). I suspec…

Not exactly a board game but I would expect rock paper scissors game patterns to be universal. I think dice combination games are going to be popular as well.

These are great answers. In general I think leveraging uncertainty and imperfect information is going to be pretty universal.

Re: Questions I would ask God about the game of Go

#72

Post by threatofrain »

rdlw wrote: post #52
coldtea wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no actual gravity rules in Tetris. Pieces move downwards, but that's about it.

They move faster at higher levels, and the exact speeds and line clear requirements are arbitrary.

But do pieces accelerate AS they fall?

Re: Questions I would ask God about the game of Go

#73

Post by CydeWeys »

akkartik wrote: post #68
CydeWeys wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some birds that are better at tool use than you might think, too. It's worth pointing out that Go is a purely mathematical game. You don't need a board at all to play it, especially not if your memory is good enough. Chess Grandmasters don't need boards to play Chess, for example; they can simply say the moves to each other and both will have the same image of the board in their mind. So you could have inte…

Some humans can play Chess in their minds, yes. But would they have learned to play Chess if it was purely mind stuff? I don't think so. We might one day have octopuses play Chess with us. But there may be other alien games we'd learn from them as well. Or not.

Why not? We have games that exist entirely verbally that have always been so. It doesn't seem an impossible stretch to have verbal games that involve mentally imagining a physical layout, especially because these are aliens we're talking about here who could easily have much better visualization abilities than us. Maybe it would even be an adaptation brought on by an inability to change their environment as well as we can.

Re: Questions I would ask God about the game of Go

#74

Post by CydeWeys »

cylon13 wrote: post #66
CydeWeys wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, one can imagine some aliens evolving differently such that they don't enjoy games, but all of them ?

Of course not all of them, we enjoy games, and we're the only actual data point we have. But since we're just one data point, we really don't know anything about the probability of different subsystems of the mind evolving. I certainly hope we encounter sentient empathetic aliens that enjoy games as much as we do!

Well for Go to not exist anywhere in the universe there'd either have to be no aliens, or no aliens that enjoy games, or something along those lines. So long as there are some aliens and some aliens that enjoy games, Go and other relatively simple abstract board games do seem like they should inevitably be reinvented many times over across the universe.

Hell, maybe there's aliens that don't enjoy games per se but that use them for other purposes, like deciding legal guilt or who gets to rule.

Re: Questions I would ask God about the game of Go

#75

Post by CydeWeys »

DanTheManPR wrote: post #61
CydeWeys wrote: post #6

> Is go played anywhere else in the universe, and was it discovered by chance there? > What openings do aliens play? I love these questions about if anyone else in the universe is playing Go. My gut response would be yes -- it's a simple enough game (regular game grid of any size roughly 5x5 on up, one type of piece, two players take turns alternating placing pieces, and any that are surrounded are removed). I suspec…

Connect N type games seem almost certain to exist elsewhere, as are connection games such as Hex. The fundamental concept is very basic, and the there are not a lot of variations. There are a plethora of abstract games that have been invented that are not played very much, but seem to have the potential for extreme depth of play. I would be willing to bet that some of those neglected games are played by Aliens somewh…

This is a great thought. Do you know if anyone is looking at computationally examining these overlooked games and trying to find the ones with truly excellent depth, so that they may get greater attention? That sounds like a fun project.

Re: Questions I would ask God about the game of Go

#76

Post by daseiner1 »

mcbuilder wrote: post #23

Would not Alpha Go Zero and related algorithms give us a good insight into the question about what openings alien's might play? Isn't it really tackling the game from first (or zeroth if you will) principles, just simulated games without the historical baggage coming from human study. It has also considerably changed our own knowledge of the opening.

Are you implying alien societies wouldn’t (don’t?!) have their own historical baggage?

Re: Questions I would ask God about the game of Go

#77

Post by conanbatt »

Iv wrote: post #67
CydeWeys wrote: post #6

> Is go played anywhere else in the universe, and was it discovered by chance there? > What openings do aliens play? I love these questions about if anyone else in the universe is playing Go. My gut response would be yes -- it's a simple enough game (regular game grid of any size roughly 5x5 on up, one type of piece, two players take turns alternating placing pieces, and any that are surrounded are removed). I suspec…

Not exactly a board game but I would expect rock paper scissors game patterns to be universal. I think dice combination games are going to be popular as well.

And they would be shaped by whatever they could form with their hands.

Sickle - Brick - Foil

Re: Questions I would ask God about the game of Go

#78

Post by majos »

CydeWeys wrote: post #63
andai wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, the smartest animals on earth apart from primates are dolphins, crows and octopuses. But most aliens are portrayed as humanoids. I can't remember a single alien movie with sea creatures or intelligent birds. But if anyone knows some, please let me know :) I think the body shape part is relevant here because it determines what kinds of games are possible or practical. A species of intelligent octopuses might play…

There are some birds that are better at tool use than you might think, too. It's worth pointing out that Go is a purely mathematical game. You don't need a board at all to play it, especially not if your memory is good enough. Chess Grandmasters don't need boards to play Chess, for example; they can simply say the moves to each other and both will have the same image of the board in their mind. So you could have inte…

> It's worth pointing out that Go is a purely mathematical game. You don't need a board at all to play it, especially not if your memory is good enough. Chess Grandmasters don't need boards to play Chess, for example; they can simply say the moves to each other and both will have the same image of the board in their mind.

Is it common to be able to play Go without a board? That seems to require storing 361 bits in your head. I guess it’s much sparser than that for most of the game and has more structure than just 361 random bits, but that still sounds hard.

Here’s a (strong?) amateur who claims to be the only person who can play this way [1].

[1] https://senseis.xmp.net/?BaoYun

Re: Questions I would ask God about the game of Go

#79

Post by CydeWeys »

sdenton4 wrote: post #70
coldtea wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They move faster at higher levels Which proves it's not gravity -- gravity would move the same speed always (assuming a vacuum game stage), or would move proportionally to air resistance (so based on shape), etc.

There is gravity, but Tetris pieces are dropped from very high, and have achieved terminal velocity by the time they reach your board.

I know we're firmly into joke territory at this point, but anyway, if that were true, then line pieces would fall faster when oriented vertically than horizontally.

Clearly the real answer is that Tetris is played in a weightless vacuum, and that pieces are shot at a constant speed from somewhere offscreen.

Re: Questions I would ask God about the game of Go

#80

Post by CydeWeys »

conanbatt wrote: post #77
Iv wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not exactly a board game but I would expect rock paper scissors game patterns to be universal. I think dice combination games are going to be popular as well.

And they would be shaped by whatever they could form with their hands. Sickle - Brick - Foil

It doesn't even require physical representation. You can play it verbally, or if that results in simultaneity issues, each player separately says their play for the next round to a judge.

Hell, if the players are far enough away from each other and shouting out their answers, you can solve the simultaneity issue. By the time you've heard the other player's move you're already halfway through saying your own move, and can't pretend you were going to say something else.

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