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Working for someone vs. doing your own thing

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Re: Working for someone vs. doing your own thing

#71

Post by deedubaya »

camhart wrote: post #69
tempsy wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your definition of prohibitively expensive? I've bought a gold plan off the exchange in California for Kaiser and it's $530/mo with no deductible. That's lower than I expected.

I was looking last year in Washington. Cheapest option for my family was ~$1800 / month, and that had a 14k deductible and ~20k max out of pocket. It also couldn't be used outside of Washington state (which sucks). Went with the health ministry route because we align with their principals already, plus we can visit family out of the country and be "covered".

Can confirm similar prices for a family of 3, no prior health issues.

Re: Working for someone vs. doing your own thing

#72

Post by xyzzyz »

aengvs wrote: post #66
tempsy wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how much do you pay in taxes though?

I've recently moved to the US from Australia. The amount my employer and I pay for my healthcare is significantly more than I paid in Australian taxes for healthcare. And that's before including my deductible, things my insurance doesn't cover and the amount I pay in US taxes for healthcare.

In Australia, the government spends over $70B on healthcare, but collects only around $10B through Medicare levy surcharge. The only reason your healthcare spending in Australia seemed so low is because an overwhelming majority of the cost of healthcare in Australia is covered through general taxes, and not through the Medicare tax. Even if you focus on Medicare benefits only, the Medicare levy surcharge only covers less than half of the Medicare benefits.

That said, healthcare in Australia in fact is cheaper than in the US, but not as much cheaper as you think it is.

Re: Working for someone vs. doing your own thing

#73

Post by tempsy »

Thorentis wrote: post #70
tempsy wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the difference is probably negligible when you sum up taxes and like others said you would qualify for either free or subsidized insurance if you were low income

Not at all! Using some simple online calculators, assuming you earn $125k in San Fran, your take home pay after tax is $85k. In Australia, your take-home pay after tax is $88k (and that includes the medicare levy deduction if you don't have private health cover). So not only are you being taxed more in the US, you also have to pay for healthcare on top of it. Insane.

if you're working a regular job then that's not true because employers heavily subsidize your premium or pay for it in full if you're working full time.

if you're self employed then your health care premium is 100% tax deductible

Re: Working for someone vs. doing your own thing

#74

Post by wolco »

Thorentis wrote: post #33
tempsy wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your definition of prohibitively expensive? I've bought a gold plan off the exchange in California for Kaiser and it's $530/mo with no deductible. That's lower than I expected.

> $530/mo Wow. Just wow. As an Australian, I cannot fathom having to include $530 into my monthly budget just to ensure I don't end up homeless (or heavily in debt) if I get really sick. I'm not a socialist (I'm quite a centrist when it comes to economic policies), but something about the US system absolutely must change.

Let's do the math.

Someone making 100,000

On average you pay 2% of annual salary to health levy which gives you medicare 2000.00

If you are over 90k you pay 1.5 unless you have private insurance On average $2000. Plus on average $800 in extra like someone driving you to the hospital

$4800 aus to usd = $3312.41

It looks like you are paying half.

But the government is spending 7800 a year per person. So the additional cost comes from general tax revenue which you pay.

On average you are paying an extra 10000-15000 in taxes on that 100,000

Re: Working for someone vs. doing your own thing

#75

Post by v64 »

just_myles wrote: post #32
hunter-gatherer wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paraphrasing, but he said early on that he wasn't trying to convince the reader of anything and that it was just a brain dump of his thoughts.

I thought that was a bit odd. If it was for the author's own rationalization and is not trying to convince the audience of a any kind of point, then why is the author publishing this publically? Why can't the author write this out in notepad or on pen and paper(Like I do.) and leave it at that? Vanity?

His brain ramblings may be useful to someone else out there having similar experiences or thoughts.

Re: Working for someone vs. doing your own thing

#76

Post by Yabood »

neonate wrote: post #10
daxfohl wrote: post #4

There's a pretty high correlation between parental wealth and success as a startup founder. I assume it's because of the safety net. My friends who have been successful (and who had blue-collar upbringings like me, and all in mid-40's now) all worked full time jobs until their side projects were self-sustaining. None of them hit unicorn status, but I think all of them have lived healthy, fruitful lives. Also note by…

Given the research on adverse childhood experiences, there's likely a subtler advantage too, for founders who were raised in more stable and secure environments. Growing up under greater pressure (violence, abuse, trauma) leaves you less resilient, more risk averse, more at risk. I'm not saying wealthy families don't have this, or that poor families can't be stable and secure. But on average it probably makes a diffe…

>> Growing up under greater pressure (violence, abuse, trauma) leaves you less resilient, more risk averse, more at risk.

Speaking from personal experience, I have to disagree. I was raised in Baghdad by a single parent, my mother. We lived through three major wars, almost never had a steady income till after 2004 when I was 19 and started working for the US military as an interpreter. I believe growing up under great pressure (and violence) has made me more resilient and increased my appetite for risk.

Re: Working for someone vs. doing your own thing

#78

Post by jbay808 »

wolco wrote: post #74
Thorentis wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> $530/mo Wow. Just wow. As an Australian, I cannot fathom having to include $530 into my monthly budget just to ensure I don't end up homeless (or heavily in debt) if I get really sick. I'm not a socialist (I'm quite a centrist when it comes to economic policies), but something about the US system absolutely must change.

Let's do the math. Someone making 100,000 On average you pay 2% of annual salary to health levy which gives you medicare 2000.00 If you are over 90k you pay 1.5 unless you have private insurance On average $2000. Plus on average $800 in extra like someone driving you to the hospital $4800 aus to usd = $3312.41 It looks like you are paying half. But the government is spending 7800 a year per person. So the additional…

Given the context of this conversation... How does the math change if you strike out on your own, earning nothing for a year?

I think it suggests that the healthcare barrier to entrepreneurship is much higher in the US than in Australia.

Re: Working for someone vs. doing your own thing

#79

Post by lend000 »

Thorentis wrote: post #33
tempsy wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your definition of prohibitively expensive? I've bought a gold plan off the exchange in California for Kaiser and it's $530/mo with no deductible. That's lower than I expected.

> $530/mo Wow. Just wow. As an Australian, I cannot fathom having to include $530 into my monthly budget just to ensure I don't end up homeless (or heavily in debt) if I get really sick. I'm not a socialist (I'm quite a centrist when it comes to economic policies), but something about the US system absolutely must change.

Keep in mind Australia has ~40% more doctors per capita than the US [0]. And the supply/demand curve is not linear, so physician shortage alone can account for a significant part of the price difference (note that Singapore and Japan are noteworthy exceptions to the doctor/quality ratio). As for why there are fewer doctors in the US than most developed countries, there are a number of potential reasons, and there is no reason to believe that any of them would be solved by the government subsidizing healthcare. You might just get long wait times like Canada and the UK (with comparable, but still higher physician counts than the US), which are sort of the jokes of socialized medicine countries.

[0] https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.MED.PHYS.ZS

Re: Working for someone vs. doing your own thing

#80

Post by aantix »

Yabood wrote: post #76
neonate wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the research on adverse childhood experiences, there's likely a subtler advantage too, for founders who were raised in more stable and secure environments. Growing up under greater pressure (violence, abuse, trauma) leaves you less resilient, more risk averse, more at risk. I'm not saying wealthy families don't have this, or that poor families can't be stable and secure. But on average it probably makes a diffe…

>> Growing up under greater pressure (violence, abuse, trauma) leaves you less resilient, more risk averse, more at risk. Speaking from personal experience, I have to disagree. I was raised in Baghdad by a single parent, my mother. We lived through three major wars, almost never had a steady income till after 2004 when I was 19 and started working for the US military as an interpreter. I believe growing up under grea…

N=1 “ What doesn't kill them doesn't make them stronger: Questioning our current notions of resilience.” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/29254696/
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