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New York is proposing the creation of a 'public Venmo'

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Re: New York is proposing the creation of a 'public Venmo'

#71

Post by biolurker1 »

kilo_bravo_3 wrote: post #53
biolurker1 wrote: post #49

There is already an open source payment system which needs a bit fine-tuning so it can scale to payments. No government, serves all unbanked. Solves the same problem. You know the name.

No payment system will ever succeed unless someone can use it to purchase something from an unknown person, receive their good or service, be dissatisfied with the good or service, return the good or service, and then be assured of a refund from an unknown and untrusted actor. Even with cash, in the vast majority of cases you physically hand over the cash to someone you can see at a location you can return to. In the…

I don't see your point. I go in, transfer some BTC get the product. I return it, you transfer me back the money. What's different with fiat?

Re: New York is proposing the creation of a 'public Venmo'

#72

Post by the_watcher »

globuous wrote: post #55
the_watcher wrote: post #41

> “Why should we have to pay to use a payment system? It’s like paying to use a street,” Hockett asked at a press conference announcing the proposal. I'm probably ambivalent about a "public" banking system, but this comment seems to ignore that we quite literally do pay for using streets in the form of taxes (indirect) and tolls (direct).

Don't we pay for streets though, indirectly through municipal taxes or what not ?

That is exactly what my comment stated.

Re: New York is proposing the creation of a 'public Venmo'

#73

Post by xtian »

moralsupply wrote: post #62
xtian wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can argue for improvements to the political process, but public entities do many things better than the market. For example: the fire department, parks, utilities, roads, healthcare, education.

How do you know these services do better than the market given that they are monopolistic (as in: the government doesn't allow for competition)?

Because the US has for-profit healthcare and it’s worse on all societal-scale metrics than nationalized healthcare in other countries. And we had for-profit fire departments and the result was poor people’s houses burned down. For-profit utilities cut maintenance of essential infrastructure to hit quarterly goals. For-profit education reinforces class hierarchy, enables grift, and results in superficial curriculum tailored for mercurial “employer demand.”

Re: New York is proposing the creation of a 'public Venmo'

#74

Post by dclusin »

sct202 wrote: post #38
dclusin wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The post office used to offer free checking accounts and basic banking services. They should reintroduce that with updated digital services as well.

I can only speak about my local post office, but I can't imagine wanting to deal with their customer service if anything were to happen to my money.

It's more about providing a basic level of service to the marginalized groups in our society who are unbanked. It also provides a bulwark against extortionary and predatory pricing. Take check cashing as an example. Every time you get paid from your (I'm assuming highly paid) tech job does your bank take 1%? That's the story for people who don't have bank accounts. You and I would never use these services.

Re: New York is proposing the creation of a 'public Venmo'

#75

Post by supernova87a »

chimeracoder wrote: post #33
supernova87a wrote: post #3

The piecemeal attempts to create a rational payments system are getting to the point where the Fed just needs to acknowledge the need for a free/secure/unified infrastructure run and regulated by the government. They are starting to do this (Fed real time payment + settlement system) but not fast enough. Other countries laugh at us when we talk about the checks we have to write, the scams we endure with mistaken paym…

> Other countries laugh at us when we talk about the checks we have to write, Checks are increasingly rare in the US as well. Ask someone under the age of 25 how often they write a physical check to someone who isn't their landlord. (And even many landlords are starting to accept other forms of payment these days). Personally, I don't think I've written a physical check in at least five years, except to my superinten…

Well, at least it's your mistake that you make. (I agree that some better checksum or verification before you press "send" might be good).

In the US, people can withdraw from your bank account if they have the numbers. And it's on you to detect and report the fraud to get it reversed.

Re: New York is proposing the creation of a 'public Venmo'

#76

Post by teilo »

flyingfences wrote: post #2

If this turns into an open-source and independent application/enterprise then it could be quite interesting and maybe even good. Unfortunately, I'm fully expecting the end result (if this proposal even goes anywhere) to be a heap of state-run opacity. There's no way I trust the State of New York with my money.

I think the more likely scenario is that NY would contract the transactional system out to some company, and force banks to setup special account types that interact with the system, and pay licensing fees for using it. And setup a clearing house to enable end users to get accounts from the participating banks.

And "force" is more hyperbole. It goes without saying that the banks will not pass up the an opportunity to add a significant amount of cash to their reserves, and will lobby heavily for it.

Re: New York is proposing the creation of a 'public Venmo'

#77

Post by moralsupply »

xtian wrote: post #73
moralsupply wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know these services do better than the market given that they are monopolistic (as in: the government doesn't allow for competition)?

Because the US has for-profit healthcare and it’s worse on all societal-scale metrics than nationalized healthcare in other countries. And we had for-profit fire departments and the result was poor people’s houses burned down. For-profit utilities cut maintenance of essential infrastructure to hit quarterly goals. For-profit education reinforces class hierarchy, enables grift, and results in superficial curriculum ta…

Do you mean "for-profit" with competition, or without it? Were people voluntarily paying for those services?

If it's "for-profit", monopolistic, and run by the government, it means:

1. your money is taken away from you through taxes

2. a service you may or may not want is implemented

3. a 'target' for 'profitability' is set, which makes no sense given there's no price system directly attached to the services

4. 'targets' are delivered by cutting edges so that public workers demonstrate enough competency to justify pay raises

Re: New York is proposing the creation of a 'public Venmo'

#78

Post by [deleted] »

moralsupply wrote: post #77
xtian wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the US has for-profit healthcare and it’s worse on all societal-scale metrics than nationalized healthcare in other countries. And we had for-profit fire departments and the result was poor people’s houses burned down. For-profit utilities cut maintenance of essential infrastructure to hit quarterly goals. For-profit education reinforces class hierarchy, enables grift, and results in superficial curriculum ta…

Do you mean "for-profit" with competition, or without it? Were people voluntarily paying for those services? If it's "for-profit", monopolistic, and run by the government, it means: 1. your money is taken away from you through taxes 2. a service you may or may not want is implemented 3. a 'target' for 'profitability' is set, which makes no sense given there's no price system directly attached to the services 4. 'targ…

[deleted]

Re: New York is proposing the creation of a 'public Venmo'

#79

Post by xtian »

moralsupply wrote: post #77
xtian wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the US has for-profit healthcare and it’s worse on all societal-scale metrics than nationalized healthcare in other countries. And we had for-profit fire departments and the result was poor people’s houses burned down. For-profit utilities cut maintenance of essential infrastructure to hit quarterly goals. For-profit education reinforces class hierarchy, enables grift, and results in superficial curriculum ta…

Do you mean "for-profit" with competition, or without it? Were people voluntarily paying for those services? If it's "for-profit", monopolistic, and run by the government, it means: 1. your money is taken away from you through taxes 2. a service you may or may not want is implemented 3. a 'target' for 'profitability' is set, which makes no sense given there's no price system directly attached to the services 4. 'targ…

For profit with competition.
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