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India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

independent.co.uk

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Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#71

Post by lenkite »

goombastic wrote: post #12
vageli wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is not the citizen's responsibility to prove he is a citizen, it is the government's responsibility to prove that he isn't. > Guilty until proven innocent? How is that fair? By this rationale, couldn't one claim citizenship to any country? When I arrive at a foreign border I don't say, "Allow me entry, I am a citizen, prove otherwise." I understand that further from the border this encroachment is less justified…

You cant just wake up one day and suddenly proclaim everyone a non citizen. In that case this is a non-government having been elected by non-citizens! Right?

You can when that was the campaign promise of the election and you won the super majority to do so. Regardless of personal opinion, they did this the democratic way. We will see what the Supreme Court rules.

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#72

Post by yumraj »

gagorder wrote: post #19
reactspa wrote: post #2

1. Nobody was stripped of citizenship. They couldn't prove they had it in the first place. 2. You won't learn this from the media's narrative about it, but: the reason why most protestors are protesting the Citizenship Amendment is not because muslim refugees (from Pak., Bangla. and Afghan.) are excluded, but because everyone else (non-muslim refugees [i.e. persecuted religious minorities from these officially "Islam…

Regarding 1 - the government now wants to repeat Assam NRC exercise all over the country. Why? Why do we need to prove our citizenship now all of a sudden? Regarding 2 - the government handpicked only those countries which have Islam as state religion, and ignored others like Sri Lanka, Myanmar, Nepal, Bhutan and China. The largest refugee population in India are Sri Lankan Hindu Tamils living for more than 30 years…

Because Hindus and other minorities are not being persecuted for their religion in non-Islamic neighboring countries.

Every few days there is a report in Pak media where yet another Hindu teenager girl is abducted and converted to Islam.

It is India's right and duty to provide refuge to these people.

Surely you can't argue that Muslims are being prosecuted in such a manner in Islamic countries.

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#73

Post by yumraj »

shafkathullah wrote: post #8
reactspa wrote: post #2

1. Nobody was stripped of citizenship. They couldn't prove they had it in the first place. 2. You won't learn this from the media's narrative about it, but: the reason why most protestors are protesting the Citizenship Amendment is not because muslim refugees (from Pak., Bangla. and Afghan.) are excluded, but because everyone else (non-muslim refugees [i.e. persecuted religious minorities from these officially "Islam…

This is very wrong and misleading comment. protestors are protesting due to targeting a minority without naming them, and amending constitution on the basis of religion, in a secular country with a secular constitution. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/12/indians-protesting-ci...

Indian minorities are not being targeted.

Non-Muslim minorities from neighboring Islamic countries are being given refuge to save them from religious prosecution.

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#75

Post by smt1 »

yumraj wrote: post #62
pavish wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why would the ruling party express dismay over hindus who were termed as illegal immigrants. They made the process easier, basically providing immediate citizenship for hindus and other minorities, excluding muslims. This is downright unethical and should be regarded as a crime.

Because India is providing refuge to Hindus and other minorities who are being persecuted in neighboring Islamic nations. In Pakistan Hindu teenagers are regularly abducted, converted to Islam and married away. India is giving refuge to these people. Muslims are not similarly persecuted in Islamic nations.

> Muslims are not similarly persecuted in Islamic nations.

That's a gross generalization. See for example, the Ahmadis in Pakistan. Or more generally, the whole Sunni vs Shia split. India is supposed to be a secular country.

Anyways, most of the recent rukkus is in Assam and northeastern India. Most of the people fleeing Bangladesh aren't doing so because of religious persecution; that country doesn't have nearly as stringent islamic laws like Pakistan does. The official platform of the ruling party in Bangladesh, which has 300+ out of 350 seats currently in parliament, promotes secularism as one of four main tenants. There has been communal violence there, just like in India, but it is no Pakistan.

Hindus and Muslims alike leave Bangladesh for various reasons, but in the last four decades, it's mostly because of economic and ecological issues.

Meanwhile, in Assam, there has been more than a century of Assamese vs Bengali (both hindus and muslims, both from India and Bangladesh like) vs other tribal/ethnic groups. This has resulted in several partitions of Bengal (which also caused economic decline, which also caused more refugees), and several carve outs of Assam into a bunch of other states due to many insurgencies.

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#76

Post by quantummkv »

goombastic wrote: post #5

[flagged]

> This government is going nuts trying to create a hindu muslim divide.

Um, No. The CAA bill does not decide citizenship based on your religion. There are many factors but religion is not one of them. Most of the illegal migrants are from the neighboring countries. The fact that these are Muslim majority countries is not something the Indian government can or should do anything about.

And regarding the other fact that the bill allows fast citizenship to Hindus and Sikhs coming into India, why shouldn't it? The people of these religions are persecuted outside in some countries (Read about what Pakistan did in 1971 in Bangladesh and also read the data for the religious markup of the Pakistani populace form 1947 to 2019) and India, being their historical homeland should welcome them.

Israel also has laws for accepting persecuted Jews to the safety of their homeland. There are no protests for that, then why should India face protests for it?

> Food inflation, unemployement, and all markers of quality of life are down

Food inflation (specifically the onion prices that I assume that you are referring to) is due to the two months of unusual extra monsoon this season that destroyed the crop. I think we can safely assume that the government cannot control rain and cannot magically grow food out of thin air.

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#77

Post by yumraj »

mlnj wrote: post #66
yumraj wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because India is providing refuge to Hindus and other minorities who are being persecuted in neighboring Islamic nations. In Pakistan Hindu teenagers are regularly abducted, converted to Islam and married away. India is giving refuge to these people. Muslims are not similarly persecuted in Islamic nations.

If Muslims are not persecuted in similar ways why not open the refugee status to such cases if they may arise? Why bar them on basis of religion?

Because India was partioned in 1947 on religious basis.

Pak and Bangladesh, which are Islamic countries, can take care of Islamic refugees.

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#78

Post by quantummkv »

random314 wrote: post #74

I found this image that seems to sum it up https://i.redd.it/52yh38os3b541.jpg

It's as genuine as the Russian propaganda being spread in the US. The only difference is that it's Pakistan spreading the propaganda here.

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#79

Post by nchiring »

gagorder wrote: post #25
routerhash wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a recent thing. Read about Assam Accord of 1985 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assam_Accord The protests in eastern part of India is to uphold this accord. The current government has diluted the accord to give citizenship to these illegal immigrants(excluding Muslims, LTTE, etc) with the CAB bill.

For Assamese the 'outsiders' are anyone from not Assam. It means the citizens from other parts of India themselves like from Bengal, Bihar

I am from Assam. Your view is a blatant lie. My immediate right and rear neighboring families in my village are of Bihari origin and they have been living for 4 generations. This is just a small example. Thousands of people who were originally from rest of India have been living there. People of Assam are not protesting against the Indian citizens that have come from the rest of India and settled in Assam. Assamese people( & NE people by large) have been fighting against illegal immigrants from Bangladesh for more than 4 decades. The people's view in Assam is, illegal immigrants are illegal regardless of their religions, be it Hindu or Muslim and should be either deported or distributed across all the states of India so that pressure on small NE states doesn't create demographic imbalances. NRC was a mandate of Assam accord which was the culmination of 6 years long protests of the same issue during 1979-1985. Now this new law called Citizenships Amendment Act(CAA) decrees to grant citizenship to the Hindu immigrants detected by NRC exercise and deny to Muslim immigrants. Not only it provides citizenships to illegal Hindu immigrants, it also paves the way for future Hindu & Buddhist immigrants from Bangladesh to these small states which share porous borders with Bangladesh. Fear of indigenous people becoming a minority is not misplaced. Indigenous people of a state named Tripura has already become minority owing to the influx of Bangladeshi immigrants over a period of time.

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#80

Post by benjoseph »

yumraj wrote: post #72
gagorder wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding 1 - the government now wants to repeat Assam NRC exercise all over the country. Why? Why do we need to prove our citizenship now all of a sudden? Regarding 2 - the government handpicked only those countries which have Islam as state religion, and ignored others like Sri Lanka, Myanmar, Nepal, Bhutan and China. The largest refugee population in India are Sri Lankan Hindu Tamils living for more than 30 years…

Because Hindus and other minorities are not being persecuted for their religion in non-Islamic neighboring countries. Every few days there is a report in Pak media where yet another Hindu teenager girl is abducted and converted to Islam. It is India's right and duty to provide refuge to these people. Surely you can't argue that Muslims are being prosecuted in such a manner in Islamic countries.

So just take revenge on Muslims who had been born in this country and calling it their motherland?
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