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Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

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Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#71
post #51
post #40

Mods - can we update the title to “San Francisco dog poop crisis” ? Note that the category of tickets in 311 is “Human / Animal waste”. I personally went through 100 random tickets on the sf data portal and found that 95% were either dog poop or miss classified (eg abandoned car or trash collection). People automatically read the headline and correlate to human waste.

Ok, I put dogs in there in parens. Open to better suggestions.

I don't think that's accurate as well. Since it is not all dog. Lol, I know it is hard. May be just say "dog and human" ?

Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#72
post #12

SF needs the Portland Loo.[1][2] The homeless-resistant public toilet. Not enough privacy for a drug deal. Water faucet on the outside, not the inside. Prison-grade stainless. [1] https://www.latimes.com/world/la-xpm-2012-aug-29-la-na-08-29... [2] https://portlandloo.com/

If its private enough to poop in its not private enough to do a drug deal in? So you can see multiple people's legs that's going to stop things?

Most of the time such "features" are about addressing the detractors who say they will only facilitate drug deals. Because, you know, that's one major way to shoot down any public goods.

Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#73

There are simply too many puns are floating around in my brain-- and they're all terrible. My wife has always said, "everyone likes a good poop joke", but I think that may have been targeted at preschoolers and not adults.

n=1 but i like a good poop joke

n=2, shit's funny

Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im just curious if there are any examples of this kind of attitude actually working instead of just attracting more homeless people. So far it seems like San Francisco's policy of not enforcing basic quality of life laws has not made homeless people say "oh gee they sure are nice not to arrest me for dealing drugs and smashing car windows. To thank them I will not poop in the street."

Supervised injecting rooms have been a great success in Sydney https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/lessons-from-the-heroin-...

I believe safe injection rooms are a net positive because they reduce strain on ambulance services. That's great. But what's next? Massage parlors and day spas? Im sure they'd be able to better find a job if they were nice and limber and smelled nice. Maybe we should just give them free drugs? Otherwise they're just going to steal and panhandle to get money for drugs. Maybe we should just give them cash so they can buy whatever they need? If they're finally out from under financial stress I'm sure they'll be able to turn it around then.

Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#76

You could actually enforce the laws and put people in safe jails with better living conditions than they have now, outside the city limits. It seems like being more and more lenient is not a solution to a problem getting worse and worse.

Put homeless people in jails? For being homeless?

Yes, most cites and states have laws against vagrancy. Just because something is "public property" doesn't mean you get to live or camp there.

Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity why is that not a solution? Why is it inherently better for them to live on the streets of SF than someplace with running water and electricity? It's also obviously better for the citizens of SF to not have to deal with human feces, dirty needles and massive amounts of property crime (at the least). There's tons of empty space in the US, it seems reasonable to move people who are breaking the law, ca…

You can't keep humans in place, who don't want to stay in place. If you paid some benighted town in the Great Plains $500/head to accept your homeless, that town would just buy each transplanted San Francisco resident a sandwich and a bus ticket, pocketing the rest. It would soon become a joke on SF streets, "yeah I just got back from Nebraska!"

The ideal is to solve the problem with carrot and stick.

Give them free housing of a sort, so that it’s an improvement over living on the street, but not so that currently-housed people would feel tempted to downgrade their status to homeless in order to get the free house.

The ideal free housing camp is (a) away from major population centres, (b) fairly basic, and (c) compulsory for those who wind up homeless in major cities.

Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#78
post #31
post #16

It seems very wrong to describe it in those terms. I mean, what's next, an article in January about how DC has a "frozen bodies on the street" problem? It's a homeless crisis.

More than that, it's a lack of public toilets crisis. https://sf.curbed.com/2016/12/5/13845276/bathrooms-san-franc... "One for every 0.4 square miles, or one for every 6,857 residents, not even counting tourists, commuters..."

It's an amalgamation of several crises. Homelessness, extreme surge in costs of living, poor healthcare (esp. for psychological problems), public toilets, opiate use, ... I guess such things always are. It's pretty much never a single cause.

Remembers me of mid-nineties Germany (where I've grown up) – in Munich (yes, Oktoberfest), Kindergarten teachers did rounds in the morning to clean up the fenced-in Kindergarten playground, remove the syringes the junkies left. In one of the better neighborhoods, too. Whole squares right in the city where hundreds of homeless did drugs with helpless police standing by. I remember being chased away from a playground in a well-off part of Bremen by an approaching mob of violent homeless junkies. Lots of refugees from the Balkan war, often in an absolutely desolate psychological state. That, too, was an amalgamation of lots of crises – reunification, economy doing poorly, a society built by the rules of Cold War, falling apart, war in the Balkans, huge reluctance to change the tiniest thing.

But Germany really turned things around. A lot of targeted action, lots of reforms, lots of small changes to how the social security net functions, a big invest in robust police services, somehow mostly without the Police violence issues the US have. There are some corner cases where the social services still fail to help, other than that, it's become relatively hard to stay homeless for long. In Munich, you really have to know where to look to find any homeless at all (Hofgarten at dusk; one particular river bridge.) Being poor isn't fun, and it's comparatively harder to get out of poverty (though the US seem to be catching up there.) It's easy and cost-neutral (i.E. part of mandatory insurance or covered by social security) to get help with mental health issues – no doubt that contributed. No opiate crisis to speak of (got lucky there).

A lot of money has been (and is being) spent on it though. It'll be interesting to see whether the US will do likewise, or find a way to make it work on a smaller budget, or simply fail to get things to improve.

Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#79

Can human genome be sequenced from human poop? With sequencing getting so cheap, this might be an cheap data source for Hooli and the likes.

Yes it can, and that method has been used to capture badly-behaved pet owners. There's even a startup for it: pooprints.

Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#80
post #39
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give them a better place to do drugs; a place where they get free needles and can throw away the old ones properly (so they won't leave them lying about).

I can't really understand the attitude such as 'if they want to do drug, let them do it in a safe way at least'. It sounds compassionate and all, but isn't doing drug just, WRONG? I somehow feel this is an encouragement to them.

Depending on the drug, not continuing to do it may be fatal (this includes alcohol with a sufficient level of addiction).

Knowing that there is a safe place to go and treatment for it might reduce some inhibitions about it, but I doubt that many, if any at all, would actually start doing such hard drugs because of places like this.

More likely, if someone is in a position where they would consider doing it in the first place, they would do it anyway.

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