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Phoebus Cartel

en.wikipedia.org

71–80 of 126 posts

Re: Phoebus Cartel

#71

Here is the section in Gravity's Rainbow which tells the tale of Byron the Lightbulb (the longest-burning lightbulb) and his troubles with the Phoebus Cartel: https://www.tildedave.com/byron.html In a book full of strange meandering asides, this was among the most memorable.

Wow that was hard to read.

Re: Phoebus Cartel

#72
post #36

Light bulbs are a bad example of the dangers of cartels. Incandescent filaments are much more efficient at higher temperature but burn out quicker. In the common case, savings from reduced electricity cost more than offset the increased replacement rate for bulbs in accessible fixtures. Short-lived bulbs were good for the customers. In a market with perfect information people would have chosen them on their own. Unfo…

The wikipedia article you linked quotes a source which directly contradicts what you are saying. From: https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-history/dawn-of-electronics/t...

> Their lightbulbs were of a higher quality, more efficient, and brighter burning than other bulbs. They also cost a lot more. Indeed, all evidence points to the cartel’s being motivated by profits and increased sales, not by what was best for the consumer.

It would have been straightforward for them to manufacture higher voltage, less brighter lamps with a longer lifespan. They didn't.

Re: Phoebus Cartel

#73
post #14

Related https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence I would argue that the current economic system does not plan for maximum longevity of products. Rather it can be more profitable for an manufacturer for planned obsolescence or simply make products which does not last that long. As long as they do not get caught that is.

The counter to this is that people, despite saying otherwise, are not actually interested in spending more money for a better product. Combine that with some markets that have relatively short life between product generations and it removes the need to create products that last a long time. It's more fun and easier to blame corporate greed, but it's rarely the case. More often than not it's just that people want "che…

I am sometimes interested, but I learnt the hard way that more expensive is not a good measure for better. In other words, it's often really hard to find out which product is better even when I'm perfectly OK with paying more for higher quality. That's the problem called "lack of perfect information", and that's something I totally see being abused to death by advertisers/businessmen.

Re: Phoebus Cartel

#74
post #14

Related https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence I would argue that the current economic system does not plan for maximum longevity of products. Rather it can be more profitable for an manufacturer for planned obsolescence or simply make products which does not last that long. As long as they do not get caught that is.

The counter to this is that people, despite saying otherwise, are not actually interested in spending more money for a better product. Combine that with some markets that have relatively short life between product generations and it removes the need to create products that last a long time. It's more fun and easier to blame corporate greed, but it's rarely the case. More often than not it's just that people want "che…

More money does not always mean better.

Also, you can only compare different products, I haven't seen a company that produces the same model, one with short lived parts, one with long lasting ones. Then I could make a real choice.

Re: Phoebus Cartel

#75

The worst thing about the Phoebus Cartel is that for something that lasted just a few years (and didn't really work), it is constantly cited as the quintessential example of 'planned obsolescence' and therefore one of the evils of capitalism. 'Planned obsolescence' itself, is an overstated and overrated concept that is frequently conflated with common practices like making a product cheaper through the use of lower-q…

Android updates are another good example.

Re: Phoebus Cartel

#76
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is truly a "The Sun"-tier comment. So many things are wrong. The EU did not mandate halogen bulbs, it phased out incandescent bulbs, with many exceptions for situations and use-cases where alternatives are inadequate . You can (and should) buy LEDs which are many times more efficient and cheaper (per hour of life) that incandescent bulbs. Finally, halogen bulbs are not only not "mandated" but actually in the pro…

LEDs still have PWM flicker and buzzing problems. This is unpleasant, inhibits focus, and makes them inadequate for me in all cases. Perhaps the fancy "smart bulbs" aren't as bad, but I don't have $125 for a single light bulb. I also don't want to fiddle around with my lighting and by multiple $125 bulbs until one works. I just want to put in a bulb and be done. The only lighting which has successfully done that for…

Not all use PWM.

Re: Phoebus Cartel

#77

Here is the section in Gravity's Rainbow which tells the tale of Byron the Lightbulb (the longest-burning lightbulb) and his troubles with the Phoebus Cartel: https://www.tildedave.com/byron.html In a book full of strange meandering asides, this was among the most memorable.

Byron the Bulb was what got me hooked on Pynchon.

He writes like a madman

Re: Phoebus Cartel

#78
post #36

Light bulbs are a bad example of the dangers of cartels. Incandescent filaments are much more efficient at higher temperature but burn out quicker. In the common case, savings from reduced electricity cost more than offset the increased replacement rate for bulbs in accessible fixtures. Short-lived bulbs were good for the customers. In a market with perfect information people would have chosen them on their own. Unfo…

> Unfortunately of 3 categories of information needed for an informed decision (lifetime, power usage, and light output) purchasers only had a good measure of how often they replaced bulbs.

I may be dating myself, but I have never in my entire life seen a light bulb sold without the wattage displayed front and center. It is by far a more accessible metric than when it dies, by which time I have long forgotten where in time immemorial I bought that particular bulb.

Re: Phoebus Cartel

#79
post #36

Light bulbs are a bad example of the dangers of cartels. Incandescent filaments are much more efficient at higher temperature but burn out quicker. In the common case, savings from reduced electricity cost more than offset the increased replacement rate for bulbs in accessible fixtures. Short-lived bulbs were good for the customers. In a market with perfect information people would have chosen them on their own. Unfo…

Ah yes, how good for the consumer it is to collude to increase prices and offer zero competition.

You sound like a Canadian dairy farmer :)

Re: Phoebus Cartel

#80
post #30
post #3

Today, another halogen lightbulb failed at my house. These are the very unreliable replacements for incandescent bulbs as mandated by the EU.

LED's also have an inferior light quality to incandescent. The color rendering index of the average LED is usualy 70-80, usually with horrible green spikes. Incandescent lights are blackbody radiators and have a CRI of 100. So the quality of light and color rendering is equivalent to daylight. Bums me out to hear that they're being phased-out in some places.

I've noticed that new LED backlit screens tend to be harder on my eyes then the old CCL backlit ones. Perhaps it's just me getting old though?
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