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Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

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Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#71

Post by roywiggins »

kick wrote: post #54
roywiggins wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assange isn't American, isn't on American soil, and people in his position have been fair game for surveillance for approximately the entire existence of America. George Washington personally ran a spy ring: https://www.mountvernon.org/george-washington/the-revolution...

It says that all men are endowed these rights by a creator, which doesn't imply that nationality has anything to do with those rights. George Washington was the worst of the Founding Fathers, and didn't write the Declaration of Independence.

The declaration says there's a right to "Life" and every one of the founders fought a bloody revolutionary war.

I don't think it makes any sense to read the Declaration as a pacifist document.

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#72

Post by threeseed »

catalogia wrote: post #63
farisjarrah wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't make sense to me, please educate me as to what I am missing. Why is the United States within its rights to gather intelligence within the Ecuadorian Embassy within England? It seems like embassies of foreign countries, not located within the US's borders means that the US government has no legal rights to any of that. To me it looks like the US violated the rights of not just Ecuador's sovereignty, but a…

Basically, people have rights only insofar as governments consider that a convenient arrangement.

Your rights are within the context of a society you live in.

People in different countries have different rights. And governments can usurp those rights as needed e.g. jail you, kill you.

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#73

Post by threeseed »

eecc wrote: post #18
darawk wrote: post #6

Of course they were. Julian Assange's explicit mission was to expose US (and other) intelligence secrets. If they weren't spying on him and his visitors they'd be derelict in their most basic of duties. I don't even know why this is a story. I don't mind Assange, and I think the counterpoint he created to state power was good, but the idea that the state shouldn't spy on him in turn is ludicrous.

Uhm, Assange’s mission is to expose abuse by members of powerful organizations, directed at protecting their own positions and covering up abuses with more of the same.

But only if they organizations align with his world view.

Never saw anything from Wikileaks criticising the Trump or Russian administration even though they are two of the most egregious abusers of norms.

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#74

Post by zepto »

Fnoord wrote: post #46
wmil wrote: post #9

Does anyone actually find this "shocking"? It's pretty much what I expected.

Why does it have to be shocking? Is that the gold standard of news nowadays? That it has to be shocking, or else it isn't newsworthy?

Realistically, that is how News works.

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#75

Post by randcraw »

darawk wrote: post #6

Of course they were. Julian Assange's explicit mission was to expose US (and other) intelligence secrets. If they weren't spying on him and his visitors they'd be derelict in their most basic of duties. I don't even know why this is a story. I don't mind Assange, and I think the counterpoint he created to state power was good, but the idea that the state shouldn't spy on him in turn is ludicrous.

This reflects VERY badly on the nation of Equador. It reveals that their promise of sanctuary to Assange was meaningless. Worse, it calls into question ANY claim of diplomatic privilege by Equador toward anyone and their private communications is untrustworthy and will remain so until the entire present government of Equador is dead and gone.

Simply put, Equador canot be trusted. Now everyone knows.

Alas, the same can be said for Sweden now that it's been revealed that their prosecution of Assange was baseless.

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#76

Post by ceejayoz »

randcraw wrote: post #75
darawk wrote: post #6

Of course they were. Julian Assange's explicit mission was to expose US (and other) intelligence secrets. If they weren't spying on him and his visitors they'd be derelict in their most basic of duties. I don't even know why this is a story. I don't mind Assange, and I think the counterpoint he created to state power was good, but the idea that the state shouldn't spy on him in turn is ludicrous.

This reflects VERY badly on the nation of Equador. It reveals that their promise of sanctuary to Assange was meaningless. Worse, it calls into question ANY claim of diplomatic privilege by Equador toward anyone and their private communications is untrustworthy and will remain so until the entire present government of Equador is dead and gone. Simply put, Equador canot be trusted. Now everyone knows. Alas, the same ca…

Wait, how it is Ecuador's fault that the Americans managed to spy on their embassy?

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#78

Post by ThePowerOfFuet »

mywacaday wrote: post #77

Spanish company, how far would they get with a GDPR request? Are security companies exempt?

The GDPR contains explicit exceptions for police and national security; see Recital 16, Article 23(1), etc.

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#79

Post by root_axis »

eecc wrote: post #18
darawk wrote: post #6

Of course they were. Julian Assange's explicit mission was to expose US (and other) intelligence secrets. If they weren't spying on him and his visitors they'd be derelict in their most basic of duties. I don't even know why this is a story. I don't mind Assange, and I think the counterpoint he created to state power was good, but the idea that the state shouldn't spy on him in turn is ludicrous.

Uhm, Assange’s mission is to expose abuse by members of powerful organizations, directed at protecting their own positions and covering up abuses with more of the same.

Assange is a political actor. This is especially clear after his explicit support of Trump during the U.S. 2016 elections. Of course, being a political actor doesn't negate the substance of the revelations he facilitated, but his agenda definitely isn't based out of an objective desire to speak truth to power.

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#80

Post by soraminazuki »

PeterisP wrote: post #38
stickfigure wrote: post #25

I too am curious about the legal issues involved here. While I agree "this is what intelligence services are for", this was not inside the United States and the CIA doesn't automatically get free pass to break the laws of other countries. Surely some laws in the UK were broken? Or was all this sanctioned by the UK government? Or does the fact that it's an embassy mean that Ecuadorian law is applicable? How does this…

Much of what intelligence services do is a violation of local laws. Those other countries are free (and often do) prosecute any responsible agents of other countries for breaking their laws on their soil if they want to. They can convict them for these crimes, but if they didn't manage to catch them before they return home, then they are unlikely to ever be extradited. This can also have diplomatic consequences, affe…

IANAL, but aside from local laws, aren't there international laws or treaties that's supposed to stop countries from spying on each other's embassies?
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