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One Reason the U.S. Military Can’t Fix Its Own Equipment

nytimes.com

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Re: One Reason the U.S. Military Can’t Fix Its Own Equipment

#71

Post by kop316 »

cannonedhamster wrote: post #57
kop316 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't be forced to actually work with the government. So if the governmeny makes it too much of a PITA, no one will bid or they will make the contract costs incredibly high.

Actually, yeah you can. Happened in WW2. People can be drafted and stop lossed. Entire factories were taken over, wages were frozen, and product shortages happened due to military need. If people can't make a profit building military units perhaps it's time the military starts building it's own skills again.

That will never happen in a post-Vietnam era, outside of the US fighting for it's existence.

Re: One Reason the U.S. Military Can’t Fix Its Own Equipment

#72

Post by n4r9 »

gambler wrote: post #59

In the 60s science fiction we had all those advanced aliens who had artifacts that were nearly indestructible, worked forever and could output tons of energy. That was our vision of "high-tech". In the 80s we got the idea that maybe advanced aliens would have "smart" devices that could adapt to their environment, repair themselves and be incredibly versatile. In those decades SF technology has one thing in common, re…

That's true of a lot of sci fi, but the more imaginative authors foresaw many of the tensions and trade-offs between technology, commercialism and government.

I have vague memories of Philip K Dick short stories in which consumers are egged on to never fix but repeatedly buy new versions of technologies, because the old ones are built with limited lifespans, or the new versions have some superficially attractive feature with dubious actual value.

The story "Foster, you're dead!" springs to mind. Consumers are pressured into buying newer and newer bomb shelters in order to protect themselves from an imaginary enemy with constantly improving imaginary capabilities.

The more general idea that advances in technology would remove agency from the masses feels quite old, you can see the seeds of it in Brave New World for example.

Re: One Reason the U.S. Military Can’t Fix Its Own Equipment

#73

Post by davidf18 »

Why is the military purchasing products that they aren't allowed to fix. They should make that a condition of sale. They are the military. They have financial leverage.

I wonder how many of our troops are being harmed or killed because the equipment paid for by our tax money is not in working order.

They NYT should ask those leading the military why they are signing contracts that don't absolutely require that the military be able to fix the equipment that they purchase.

Re: One Reason the U.S. Military Can’t Fix Its Own Equipment

#74

Post by paganel »

captainredbeard wrote: post #48
paganel wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> M4/SA80/G36/FAL/Famas and fight when the Russians come rolling through the Fulda gap. Not to be a downer, but judging by the most recent European land war (the one in Ukraine) just picking up a "M4/SA80/G36/FAL/Famas" won't do that much in terms of stopping the enemy, you need kick-ass artillery and a kick-ass air-force, otherwise you're just sending those men into a meat grinder. That, of course, if we don't engag…

Combined arms existed in the 1980s.

Yeah, I know that, just wanted to point out that war between two comparable armies hasn’t changed that much between the 1980s and now, hell, hasn’t changed that much since WW2 and now (even though now I have the slight impression that tanks are not as well seen as during WW2, though I might be wrong on that). OP was suggesting going into battle War of Crimea-style, which would be a recipe for pointless slaughter.

Re: One Reason the U.S. Military Can’t Fix Its Own Equipment

#75

Post by swagasaurus-rex »

Ididntdothis wrote: post #53
travisoneill1 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a military that’s dependent on other parties they can’t control What makes you think the military can't control them?

At what point are they taking control versus handing over tons of money as done in recent wars? Is there a procedure for that?

It's probably similar paying taxes versus being indicted on tax evasion charges.

Re: One Reason the U.S. Military Can’t Fix Its Own Equipment

#76

Post by v8engine »

gambler wrote: post #59

In the 60s science fiction we had all those advanced aliens who had artifacts that were nearly indestructible, worked forever and could output tons of energy. That was our vision of "high-tech". In the 80s we got the idea that maybe advanced aliens would have "smart" devices that could adapt to their environment, repair themselves and be incredibly versatile. In those decades SF technology has one thing in common, re…

You have a reader for the web comic idea. Reply here when available.

Re: One Reason the U.S. Military Can’t Fix Its Own Equipment

#77

Post by konstmonst »

arethuza wrote: post #46
mothsonasloth wrote: post #28

The British military have the same problems. It's disgusting how a prestigious military force has been reduced to a pitiful size reliant on contractors to install airconditioning units, weekend warriors who fly in and out on short tours and vehicles that have had "extended life" programs instead of making new ones. Meanwhile the Russians and Chinese have been building next generation ground, air and sea units. The UK…

Its almost a 1000km from the Fulda Gap to the Western border of NATO - so if the Russians did invade through Belarus/Ukraine there would be a problem a bit before they got to the middle of Germany. And anyway, the North German Plain was just as likely an assault route for the Warsaw Pact forces as through the Fulda Gap.

The Russians already invaded Ukraine and tried to subvert Belarus. As a Russian expat I am pretty sure they wont invade NATO because every high ranking Russian official has Millions/Billions of dollars in Cayman Islands and a vast portfolio of real estate in the west. Most of their children also live in the west. Also if they invade, then no one will buy their oil and gas and they will go bust as Soviet Union did before and they understand this fact very well. Russia Government as of now is not an Empire like the Soviet Union, but is an organized crime group and should be treated as such.

Re: One Reason the U.S. Military Can’t Fix Its Own Equipment

#78

Post by kakwa_ »

Ididntdothis wrote: post #36

I always wonder what they will do if there is a big war (maybe one that affects the homeland which is something the US is not used to) and the contractors decide fighting in this war is not good for business or they just want more money? Are they going to suspend IP laws and other contracts? It seems really weird that to have a military that’s dependent on other parties they can’t control. This structure works ok if…

IP laws were partially suspended/taken over (with after the war compensations) during WWI. I'm thinking for example of Marconi's patents for wireless communication or also a few weapons design.

As for the contractors, the story of hms Prince of Wales against Bismarck comes to mind, with contractors sailing into battle to help mitigate reliability with its guns.

So there are precedents, in case of a dire need a state will enforce a deeper control over what is required to fight a war.

Re: One Reason the U.S. Military Can’t Fix Its Own Equipment

#79

Post by throwaway35784 »

cannonedhamster wrote: post #58
throwaway35784 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So because it's worth it to you it shouldn't be pirated? As if your opinion on what laws are worthwhile to follow are somehow better than the actual law? Nothing should be pirated.

The law is a sham that's routinely changed in favor of those who make the most money. Just because something's legal doesn't mean it's right. The law also applies differently based on who you are and how much justice one can afford. I also think you're exaggerating. Someone saying if content is worth something to you, you should be willing to okay for it is a far cry from them labeling themselves the arbiter of copyr…

That perspective on the law is a non starter. It's just not true. Picking and choosing what is okay to infringe is by definition being an arbiter of copyright law.

Re: One Reason the U.S. Military Can’t Fix Its Own Equipment

#80

Post by jessaustin »

Ididntdothis wrote: post #36

I always wonder what they will do if there is a big war (maybe one that affects the homeland which is something the US is not used to) and the contractors decide fighting in this war is not good for business or they just want more money? Are they going to suspend IP laws and other contracts? It seems really weird that to have a military that’s dependent on other parties they can’t control. This structure works ok if…

But what about a big war where the nation has to put all resources into the war effort?

USA will lose that war. Let's hope it doesn't happen.

The only "big" wars we've fought (Revolutionary, 1812, Civil, WWII, arguably WWI) have seen us build up a military from among the citizenry, for wars in which citizens mostly believed. There was always initially huge turnover among the officer class, as large numbers of colonels and generals selected by wealth, seniority, and politicking were replaced by men of broader experience who could lead soldiers to win in battle. There was steady improvement in munitions over the course of those wars, as general techniques of American craft and industry were focused on the requirements of war. Perhaps most importantly, soldiers and sailors came from every American family at every level of society. Also, those armies won those wars.

The standing army we have now has none of those characteristics. It spends vast sums in opaque fashion on increasingly specialized and fragile "weapons systems". It is saddled with an immense sclerotic immovable officer class. It shamelessly markets in misleading fashion to ensnare young people with limited options for its rank and file. Also, though it occasionally accomplishes a police action, the permanent American military loses all the "small" wars in which it engages, while slaughtering millions of innocents.

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