Live data from Hacker News

If you're busy, you're doing something wrong (2011)

calnewport.com

71–80 of 169 posts

Re: If you're busy, you're doing something wrong (2011)

#71
I don't believe it's related to being-busy. It's more about discipline in their life. Elite player's life is more organized, hence they seem less busy.

e.g I work out every day from 7 to 8 pm. I may be sounding less busy. But if the routine is the same, but I decide to go to the gym at random schedule, I will be more unorganized, will look busier, might be less productive, and yes I'm doing something wrong.

Re: If you're busy, you're doing something wrong (2011)

#72
Hard work is essential to success - the question is it your success? ie who is your hard work benefiting!

For example, working stupidly hard in a startup where you're stake/potential upside is either very limited or unlikely is working hard for other people.

Re: If you're busy, you're doing something wrong (2011)

#73
I know two person, in the similar business, one is doing project after project, and is high rich now, not big but in 5-10 million range, with life time of hard work. The other person, did only two big projects in similar life time. Both retired now, the other one has about 15-20 million. Waiting for the right opportunity paid off really well, along with hard work.

Re: If you're busy, you're doing something wrong (2011)

#74
post #16

Seems like a bit of a tail wagging the dog situation. How do we know the more relaxed/organized schedule leads to success, and not that success leads to a more relaxed/organized schedule? This reminds me of some other advice I remember reading: No level of hard work or organization will substitute for talent and opportunity, and nearly all success stories to the contrary are missing key facts. ie Myth: Michael Jordan…

Hard work beats talent when talent fails to work hard. But crucially, at the peak of the game, both talent and hard work are just the cost of entry. The rest is luck and opportunity. For example: Phelps won the Olympics by a knuckle . That’s a difference so subtle it’s down to chaotic systems and butterfly wings for that particular race. Overall everyone at that level is hugely talented and incredibly hardworking

Honestly, I'd say in quite a few fields, talent and hard work aren't even the cost of entry, they're semi irrelevant to how well someone does there. Sports is one of those cases where being extremely good at something is directly correlated to success, and there's no way around that.

And even that's got a certain element of opportunity in terms of the era you were born in. Tons of good athletes could have revolutionised their fields had they been born a few decades/centuries earlier. See British tennis pros, with the likes of Henman and Murray having had the potential to win a lot more grand slams in an era with worse rivals.

Still, other fields are a lot more opportunity and luck based. A lot of successful businesspeople got there by being well connected or simply having the right idea at the right time. Someone who had the foresight/luck to get into the vaping industry or bitcoin or whatever at the right time could become a millionaire/billionaire without any real talent. There are many YouTubers who can barely edit a video that got hundreds of thousands or milllions of subscribers via luck and timing. There are programmers who don't know what a switch statement here is how classes/OOP works who make thousands a month from game development on Patreon.

In many cases, talent and hard work sadly matters less than finding the right audience to appeal to, being good at marketing/sales and being able to network well/have good connections.

Re: If you're busy, you're doing something wrong (2011)

#75
post #30

Good job the violinist works in the music industry not the software industry, or he might find after all his sessions of focused deliberate practice that now no-one wants to hear the violin anymore, and he must in future focus his efforts on the upcoming disciplines of both xylophone and clarinet.

Of course, better-known orchestras will first assess an applicant's musical prowess by whiteboard interviews.

If you can't write down Freygish scale, including the dominant fifth, you needn't even dare thinking about playing there.

Re: If you're busy, you're doing something wrong (2011)

#76

Seems like a bit of a tail wagging the dog situation. How do we know the more relaxed/organized schedule leads to success, and not that success leads to a more relaxed/organized schedule? This reminds me of some other advice I remember reading: No level of hard work or organization will substitute for talent and opportunity, and nearly all success stories to the contrary are missing key facts. ie Myth: Michael Jordan…

> Seems like a bit of a tail wagging the dog situation. How do we know the more relaxed/organized schedule leads to success, and not that success leads to a more relaxed/organized schedule?

That's a facile rhetorical question. You could similarly ask, "How do we know that good food and exercise lead to healthy human beings, rather than that already-healthy human beings have access to good food and exercise?" The answer, of course, would be research. All the students were working the same amount. Their work habits were different.

Furthermore, although I can understand why success might lead to more relaxation (for instance, by making students feel less stressed about their future prospects), I don't see how it would lead to more discipline or a focus on deliberate practice. Successful people tend to do the same things they've always done, for the obvious reason that they are successful doing it. If they were undisciplined and successful, what motivation would they have for becoming disciplined?

In addition to the data and the research (and Newport has illuminated many more results than this one), two anecdotes come to mind. The first is from The Effective Executive by Peter Drucker, where he brings forward some examples:

> [Consider] Harry Hopkins, President Roosevelt’s confidential adviser in World War II. A dying, indeed almost a dead man for whom every step was torment, he could only work a few hours every other day or so. This forced him to cut out everything but truly vital matters. He did not lose effectiveness thereby; on the contrary, he became, as Churchill called him once, “Lord Heart of the Matter” and accomplished more than anyone else in wartime Washington.

The second is from my personal life. Having children forced me to concentrate my efforts and create a much more disciplined work life. I'm more successful and focused than ever. Although this is just an anecdote, this phenomenon is commonly reported by other people in demanding technical or executive roles.

Re: If you're busy, you're doing something wrong (2011)

#77
I think what these people are doing, focussed practice sessions for hours on end is really hard and requires exceptional willpower and concentration. These are not common qualities. Remember that the average attention span is 15 minutes. Nothing close to four hours. Of course, the most elite students or professionals can go on for much longer. Personally, i can't force myself to do this and end up being average or worse. despite dedicating most of my life to programming. such is life. i have tried methods to combat this and eliminating distractions is key, however most of the time it is impossible. i do know i can come up with some amazing work when i'm not distracted.

Re: If you're busy, you're doing something wrong (2011)

#78

I think as usual Cal raises important points. But this feels a bit like Malcom Gladwell's proposals were he goes out looking for data that aligns with his initial conjecture. As a man of science, I am sure Cal appreciates the weakness of a study with self reported journals, collected at a single site, in a single problem domain (Violin players). My point is that it's ok to propose this and clarify it is your opinion…

When he listed Gladwell as a source it immediately changed how I perceive the article. Perhaps I would eventually have come to take it as stretching the data to make questionable conclusions but the reference accelerated it.

Re: If you're busy, you're doing something wrong (2011)

#79
post #76

Seems like a bit of a tail wagging the dog situation. How do we know the more relaxed/organized schedule leads to success, and not that success leads to a more relaxed/organized schedule? This reminds me of some other advice I remember reading: No level of hard work or organization will substitute for talent and opportunity, and nearly all success stories to the contrary are missing key facts. ie Myth: Michael Jordan…

> Seems like a bit of a tail wagging the dog situation. How do we know the more relaxed/organized schedule leads to success, and not that success leads to a more relaxed/organized schedule? That's a facile rhetorical question. You could similarly ask, "How do we know that good food and exercise lead to healthy human beings, rather than that already-healthy human beings have access to good food and exercise?" The answ…

> The answer, of course, would be research. All the students were working the same amount. Their work habits were different.

The proper research here would have been to make the student change their habit and see if they became better musicians as a result. This article isn't research, it's writing down a fact and then trying to extract conclusions when none can be made.

Post reply on HN