Live data from Hacker News

Google's harvest of medical data includes names and full details of millions

theguardian.com

71–80 of 120 posts

Re: Google's harvest of medical data includes names and full details of millions

#71
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and patient data cannot and will not be combined with any Google consumer data. Does anybody enforce this or do we just take Google at their word?

Yes, if you have HIPPA you get routine audits to make sure you are obeying the law.

No you don’t, there are fines if you are found in violation but no one is checking on an ongoing basis. Specific entities may privately pay for audits or do so as part of certifications (HiTrust, etc) but that’s not required.

Re: Google's harvest of medical data includes names and full details of millions

#73

Googler here, my opinions are my own, standard disclaimer. I'm not going to comment on this specific case but I do have almost a decade of previous non-Google experience working in clinical documentation technology. As others have said, entering into a BAA with a covered entity, as HIPAA defines it, shouldn't be seen as a controversial action. There are numerous problems in healthcare that are too complex for individ…

> To give you an idea of the scale, I have two examples. The first is MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston. They used to have 200+ engineers working on their sophisticated home-grown EMR. It was a huge undertaking. But even with MDACC revenue, that development was unsustainable, and they moved to a 3rd party EMR vendor.

I'm not certain what aspect you are trying to highlight with this example, but readers should know that the MD Anderson implementation of the EPIC EMR system led to a 77% drop in income and layoffs approaching 1,000 people (2016-2017 time frame)[1][2]. I'm not up to date enough to know whether they have ever recovered.

[1] https://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20170106/NEWS/17010...

[2] https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/finance/md-anderson-po...

Re: Google's harvest of medical data includes names and full details of millions

#74
>The disclosed documents include highly confidential outlines of Project Nightingale, laying out the four stages or “pillars” of the secret project.

> Among the documents are the notes of a private meeting held by Ascension operatives involved in Project Nightingale.

The whole article is written like they are trying to tell a spy story which brings into question the credibility that there's any wrong doing.

Re: Google's harvest of medical data includes names and full details of millions

#75

> Google could go on to use its AI analytics to predict outcomes for individual patients, they posited. This is the most scary part[0]. I'm sure plenty here would disagree, but I simply don't (yet) share your optimism for A.I. [0] Not that the rest isn't scary.

Ubers ai won't even slow down when it sees a person in the road. A computer can prescribe a drug for me, but I can't prescribe a drug for me? Can I please have my life back please?

Drug self-prescription is forbidden for several good reasons that have stood the historical test of time, unfortunately.

It'd be convenient if we could assume perfect personal responsibility, but human behavior doesn't align with that assumption.

Re: Google's harvest of medical data includes names and full details of millions

#76

Any google employees/friends of google employees here with insight as how staff is receiving this news? My guess is like all other egregious abuses of power, the employees will stage a "protest" to feel good about themselves then keep working there.

I don't think they see this as an egregious abuse of power. Googlers trust Google to do a pretty decent job of securing private information almost all of the time; this isn't an area of moral concern for them.

(i.e. the question in their minds is "Is the data safer in the source repositories?" And it's probably not).

Re: Google's harvest of medical data includes names and full details of millions

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not defending the article (I’ve not read it), but I suppose I probably would be horrified with the status quo. I really wish we had a more consent based data culture. I suppose I don’t know how that would be designed. But lots of real things are horrifying and it’s not necessarily fine just that something is normal.

My view is that consent is oversold. If I "consent" to a boilerplate agreement handed me moments before an action is taken, have I really? Boundaries and distributions should be clearly, specifically specified, with any non-essential distributions requiring specific assent, defaulting to none. If there are consequences to sharing, those can be made known. We've been drawn into a circumstance which has long been unten…

> If I "consent" to a boilerplate agreement handed me moments before an action is taken, have I really?

Obviously you have not.

I wouldn't say this is consent being "oversold", but rather yet another way that the concept of consent is being actively undermined into a legal fiction.

This is also why the GDPR has the provision for revoking permission to your data at any time - to counter its rights being otherwise nullified through contracts of adhesion.

Re: Google's harvest of medical data includes names and full details of millions

#78
post #40
post #8

So what do we do to stop this? What recourse do people directly affected by this have?

https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/filing-a-complaint/complaint-proce... Complaint Requirements Anyone can file a health information privacy or security complaint. Your complaint must: Be filed in writing by mail, fax, e-mail, or via the OCR Complaint Portal Name the covered entity or business associate involved, and describe the acts or omissions, you believed violated the requirements of the Privacy, Security, or Breach Not…

But what would the complaint be? "I don't want my data transferred to Google, because.... Google?"

I mean, filing a complaint is free but I imagine it should have a grievance attached to be taken seriously.

Re: Google's harvest of medical data includes names and full details of millions

#79
post #7

I wonder if this is not a coincidence given acquisition of fitbit.

I'd expect it's coincidence but in the other direction; Google's Fitbit motion has led to journalists being curious what other moves Google is making in the medical space.

Re: Google's harvest of medical data includes names and full details of millions

#80
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not "fake news" at all. This is the same factual event covered with a different spin. Use of the term "fake news" to describe reporting that is merely slanted in a direction you don't like--rather than presenting demonstrably false information as fact--is completely unwarranted, and is doing terrible damage to our social institutions.

This is a TEXTBOOK case of fake news - a newspaper owned by Google competitor spinning purchase of space on encrypted Cloud Storage and Google Apps productivity suite as a big medical data mining attempt by Google to drive a political agenda. There are obvious concerns around data security here, but the article is very heavily distorting facts to drive outrage.

Also the Guardian isn’t owned by a Google competitor - it’s owned by the Scott Trust, an organisation set up specifically to maintain the paper’s editorial independence.

They have viewpoints which include a distrust of very powerful global corporations, and one you may or may not agree with - but it’s nowhere near ‘fake news’.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Trust_Limited

Post reply on HN