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Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

miamiherald.com

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Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#71
This reminds me of that Netflix series about JonBenét Ramsey where they had all of these experts prove it was the brother who did it.

It was all very weak stuff, but the people they used were all credible crime investigation people so it sounded legitimate.

The poor brother was grown up now and a software engineer who already went through enough trauma and had to sue the show for defamation.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#72
post #2

I tend to be very skeptical of claims of conspiracy and conspiracy theories in general but I've yet to hear a reasonable theory to explain how Epstein could have killed himself in a cell and unit where suicide is made a practical impossibility. A friend in law enforcement related a story about someone on suicide watch who managed to kill himself by eating/shoving massive amount of toilet paper down his throat and the…

Easy. He wasn't on suicide watch when he did it.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#73
Oh of course it was murder, it was clear he would be killed once they put him in jail (I won a bet saying he would die mysteriously within 2 months of his house arrest motion being denied). Then after he died I won another bet predicting that 'the cameras will have been not working', and sure enough when they looked at the video from the cameras it was corrupted or something. Obvious murder is obvious.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#75
post #2

I tend to be very skeptical of claims of conspiracy and conspiracy theories in general but I've yet to hear a reasonable theory to explain how Epstein could have killed himself in a cell and unit where suicide is made a practical impossibility. A friend in law enforcement related a story about someone on suicide watch who managed to kill himself by eating/shoving massive amount of toilet paper down his throat and the…

I have yet to hear a reasonable explanation for why a high profile figure wouldn't have a camera pointed at them 24/7. And a second camera for backup.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#77
post #62
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually fairly normal to not keep people on suicide watch for very long. Full-blown suicide watch is expensive, but furthermore can stress a patient to the point of actually encouraging suicide. Being unable to sleep because your cell lights are kept on 24/7 and you're constantly getting checked on, the humiliation of having to wear a suicide smock, not having sheets on your bed, etc. You can argue that this is…

I understand your point, however I want to rhetorically ask: expensive relative to what? What's a life worth? What's it worth to keep someone alive where there's very high probability that they alone could be linchpin to bring down a network of bad actors?

> expensive relative to what? What's a life worth?

I absolutely agree - it was stupid and shortsighted to take him off of suicide watch, and better suicide watch programs are needed in general.

My point is more that nothing that much out of the ordinary for American jails happened here. Things happen in US jails every day that, to most people, would seem insane - incompetence and indifference to life are the norm. See my comment above - US jails are run on shoestring budgets with no accountability. People die in jail all the time for causes that were trivially preventable.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#78
post #50
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, I was incorrect there - I was confused because he wasn't on the medical team for the autopsy. Looks like he was there as an observer, being paid by Epstein's family - which also introduces a fairly significant conflict of interest.

Why is it a massive conflict of interest from the family side but not from the state side (their pathologists)? Presumably they both care about careers and reputation.

Sort of. The family's hired pathologist is retired. I'm sure he cares about reputation for personal reasons, but it's not like his career is riding on it.

(... and thanks to the power of conspiracy theories, he's now got a cemented reputation forever among some circles).

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#79
post #69

I don't know if he killed himself or not, but it sure looks suspicious. The expectation is that there would be a flurry of investigative journalism lasting perhaps months, by different media organizations trying to uncover how he got his money, who flew to his island, or other properties, how many victims he had, interview with his house keepers, lawyers, Ghislaine Maxwell etc. But except for very few news items, the…

It looks suspicious, true, but it inconveniently looks suspicious along precisely the axes that one could expect from simple prison negligence, which is rife in the American systems.

This is a real "horses and zebras" situation.

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