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Estonia is running its country like a tech company

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Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#71

Post by skeletal88 »

seddona wrote: post #54

Anybody got experience in UK vs Estonia? I have lived and run companies in the UK and USA. The UK is light years ahead of the US in terms of all online interactions with the government. It's also been a long time since I have done any paper-based interaction with the government in the UK, the online systems have been really good for years. Curious how it compares to Estonia.

Don't know about the UK, but you really don't need to do anything on paper here. There may be some special cases, but almost everything can be done over the internet.

Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#72

Post by escanda »

znq wrote: post #4

I've run and invested in businesses in multiple countries (Spain, Germany, US, UAE, Sri Lanka). One of them (Mobile Jazz - a fully remote company) we've moved to Estonia in 2016. One of the best business decisions we've made admin-wise. While there are for sure better alternatives when it comes to "saving on taxes" (I'd say Estonia is in the European average with 20% corporate tax and an interesting taxation model on…

One thing people don't take into account when opening a company is the process and costs involved. I payed to close mine around 800 euros only to dissolve during the course of the following months. Besides paying the corresponding taxes. Another issue with a company abroad is you have to blindly trust your accountant. If I were to do it again I could have incorporated locally.

Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#73

Post by kombucha11 »

puranjay wrote: post #59
jaydenseric wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America is very backwards in tech for daily life. About 2 years ago I was blown away when I arrived at the San Francisco airport and had to buy a train card with a Visa card; the customer service guy got flustered and pulled an old carbon paper swiper thing out from under the desk, and asked for my signature. In Australia it's all wireless payWave or PayPass. My Chinese GF uses her phone to pay for things and conside…

America's banking system is the best example. My clients still pay me via ACH that takes 2-3 days to clear. Meanwhile in my local market, I can send/receive money instantly for either zero or a fee capped at less than $0.10/transaction.

Seems like FedNow was created to ease some of these pain points. https://multichannelmerchant.com/blog/fednow-service-will-of...

Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#74

Post by buboard »

ahartmetz wrote: post #62
buboard wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most countries are ran far worse than a company. If citizens had the option to freely jump between countries, most of them would go bankrupt, that's why they rely on coercion. Very few countries are ran efficiently and they re typically very small like Singapore.

Usually only the country one would move to is restricting movement. So what the hell are you talking about?

Exactly

Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#75

Post by thcsa »

skeletal88 wrote: post #67
majewsky wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a German, I don't think the issue is with our handling of personal data. The real issue is Kleinstaaterei, a not-quite-translatable word that describes every small administrative entity insisting on doing its own thing and failing to see the bigger picture. What today is Germany used to be about 100 separate nations until 1871, and a still somewhat loose federation until 1918. I think the mentality from that time…

I've heard that Germans are very skeptical about sharing data and have lots of fears about privacy. Here in Estonia our government systems work efficiently because our data is shared between government departments and ministries in a safe way. There is only one place that stores the addresses of people, there is only one place that has knows about the cars or properties I own and so on. There is a law against asking…

>There is a law against asking people who interact with the state for data that it already has.

I find that very interesting. Could you provide a link?

Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#76

Post by lnsru »

romanovcode wrote: post #22
theredbox wrote: post #11

A lot is said about Estonia but Lithuania is better positioned and grows faster than Estonia. It's interesting but to me Estonia cant quite compete with its neighbors to the point of becoming wealthier than they are now.

I think this competitevness is stupid and Baltic countries should stand together because of so much history.

Impossible! There is insane competition in Lithuania between cities. The ex-Soviets are not able to cooperate being afraid having KGB spy as partner. KGB spies are gone decades ago, but people didn’t learn to work together. Cooperation on state level is impossible. Lithuanians are jealous of Estonian success story and higher wages: https://www.baltictimes.com/estonia_has_highest_gross_wage_i...

Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#77

Post by kristofferR »

socialdemocrat wrote: post #19

As a Norwegian I can relate to many things written here. Estonia is clearly ahead of us but this thing of not being the innovator but still using off the shelf technology was something I was forced to reflect upon while living in the US 15 years ago. It was surprising how the country behind so much technology innovation was so bad at using it. It was noticeable both in the private and public sector. It was something…

One fascinating difference between Estonia and Norway is that Norway doesn't have a digital ID card - we instead use a government single sign-on platform for vetted private login provider companies.

The vast majority of people use BankID, a login system run by a consortium of most banks.

It used to require a cumbersome 2FA device, but for the last 5 years it has also been available as a Sim Toolkit App, so most use that now.

The way it works is pretty cool, you just type your SSN in a login form and immediately a popup window with a word based 2FA appears on your phone.

Seems like less of a hassle to just use your phone than the Estonian system with a physical card reader.

Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#78

Post by signal11 »

socialdemocrat wrote: post #19

As a Norwegian I can relate to many things written here. Estonia is clearly ahead of us but this thing of not being the innovator but still using off the shelf technology was something I was forced to reflect upon while living in the US 15 years ago. It was surprising how the country behind so much technology innovation was so bad at using it. It was noticeable both in the private and public sector. It was something…

The payments system in the US is really creaking at the seams, but overall tech adoption by people and small businesses isn't bad.

In the UK, the payments system works quite well, but what amazes me is how much physical letters are still a thing: for doctors' appointments with the state-run health system (the NHS), for schools communicating with parents, etc, taking personalized plates on and off a car, ...

Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#79

Post by Sag0Sag0 »

buboard wrote: post #58
dimitar wrote: post #55

No opinion on Estonia and its e-government, but running a country like a tech company sounds like a plot of a comedy set in a dystopia. I certainly hope that Estonia is ran better than most tech company Tech companies have many problems that I don't want see in a Government: - Security breaches (and just like every other tech company Bulgaria recently had a dump of the personal data of 5 million citizens) - Privacy i…

Most countries are ran far worse than a company. If citizens had the option to freely jump between countries, most of them would go bankrupt, that's why they rely on coercion. Very few countries are ran efficiently and they re typically very small like Singapore.

Maybe because most countries are run in an at least semi democratic fashion? Unlike tech companies which only answer to shareholders countries, at least theoretically are answerable to their citizens.

Countries for both good and bad reasons are typically less eager to jump on the bandwagon with new ideas and innovations also, because the stakes are far higher than in a tech company.

Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#80

Post by mattmanser »

jaydenseric wrote: post #57
socialdemocrat wrote: post #19

As a Norwegian I can relate to many things written here. Estonia is clearly ahead of us but this thing of not being the innovator but still using off the shelf technology was something I was forced to reflect upon while living in the US 15 years ago. It was surprising how the country behind so much technology innovation was so bad at using it. It was noticeable both in the private and public sector. It was something…

America is very backwards in tech for daily life. About 2 years ago I was blown away when I arrived at the San Francisco airport and had to buy a train card with a Visa card; the customer service guy got flustered and pulled an old carbon paper swiper thing out from under the desk, and asked for my signature. In Australia it's all wireless payWave or PayPass. My Chinese GF uses her phone to pay for things and conside…

Yes, very forward thinking paying with your phone, letting Google have access to your purchase history.

Very generous to them.

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