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The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

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Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#71

Post by Tade0 »

graeme wrote: post #65
Tade0 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't participate in any of the decisions, but I assume that given a 8h workday less than one hour was reserved for lunch and the rest for stuff like going to the bathroom and socializing with your co-workers. It actually was dropped not that long ago, because clients complained that we "weren't working full time". Little do they know that those 6h were honest, focused work and the requested 8h won't be, because t…

Oh, I mean did you find it personally effective at boosting your own output. I work for myself, so if I can improve my efficiency within a given timespan, it's all win.

I did write a lot of low-quality code if that's what you're asking.

It was a lot like preparing for an exam after you skipped classes the whole semester. You don't wonder off and you don't stop and think about the direction you're going.

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#72

Post by vidarh »

100100010001 wrote: post #54
nabdab wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a valid concern. If you don’t have transparency into ongoing work, then you aren’t ready for remote workers. If the only method for your manager to know what people are working on is to tap people on shoulders, then doing that isn’t a “bad behavior” for the manager, it’s necessary behavior. Of cause a better solution is to have trust and plans. (Agile, scrum, waterfall, napkin sketches or whatever it doesn’t mat…

I disagree with the “tapping on the shoulder isn’t a bad behavior”. It is counterproductive as illustrated by the linked cartoon. https://heeris.id.au/2013/this-is-why-you-shouldnt-interrupt...

They weren't saying it isn't a bad behavior in general, but that in the absence of visibility into what staff is doing it is a necessity. It's far worse than having proper visibility, but until/unless you have that visibility, it's a lowest-effort way of getting some visibility.

Of course the right thing to do is to work to get proper visibility, and when you have that, then the "tap" is pointless interruption.

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#73

Post by jekrb »

greggman2 wrote: post #68

Since remote work seems to be the topic this article on async communication spawned I wanted to throw this out there for reactions. First off let me acknowledge that some people prefer remote work and also say up front I do not. I recent YouAreNotSoSmart podcast interviewed Laurie Santos from Yale and if I understood her research basically claims we often both individually and as a society choose things we think will…

Was there any mention about how virtual interactions might add to the quota?

I'm curious if daily social video calls with your remote co-workers would be helpful in that regard.

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#74

Post by krageon »

quadrifoliate wrote: post #70
thrownaway954 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My manager _constantly_ will shout out, "does anyone know what X is working on?" It pisses me off to high hell that a manager has to ask his workers what another worker is working on. I honestly think that EVERYONE should be using a ticket tracking system and just put assignments in a person's queue. I don't see why this is such a big deal or looked down upon. It's so easy to see what everyone is working on, run repo…

> I honestly think that EVERYONE should be using a ticket tracking system and just put assignments in a person's queue. I don't see why this is such a big deal or looked down upon. As I see it, none of the queuing stuff is really controversial. > It's so easy to see what everyone is working on, run reports to see how long things took This, on the other hand is usually what's controversial, and the reasoning behind th…

> management using past data as a stick to drive "faster" future development

Of course bad management is bad, but the idea that the type of metrics available to them make any material difference is not one that has any merit to my mind. A bad manager will always make your life hell, regardless of what measuring tools they have available.

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#75

Post by otabdeveloper4 »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #2

I tried sharing these studies at my ex employers in Europe hoping they'd spare me the hellish 40 minute commute in stop/start traffic and they weren't interested at all. Management there only values "butt time in seats" and the ability to come over and interrupt you by tapping you on the shoulder whenever they need something. As one of my ex CEOs put it: "If I don't see my employees stressing out at thier desks I get…

> interrupt you by tapping you on the shoulder whenever they need something

Well, yes, that's what you're being paid for.

The alternative is hard KPI's and getting fired for not meeting them, which is not something you really want.

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#76

Post by krageon »

BigJ1211 wrote: post #11
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #2

I tried sharing these studies at my ex employers in Europe hoping they'd spare me the hellish 40 minute commute in stop/start traffic and they weren't interested at all. Management there only values "butt time in seats" and the ability to come over and interrupt you by tapping you on the shoulder whenever they need something. As one of my ex CEOs put it: "If I don't see my employees stressing out at thier desks I get…

> As one of my ex CEOs put it: "If I don't see my employees stressing out at thier desks I get the impression they're not working." This really hits the nail on the head, in my experience this is accurate for employers that are anti-remote , they want to be able to see people "work". I've argued that that means they are essentially paying people to be there 8 hours a day, not that they're working 8 hours a day. You s…

> we can't look at the statistics at a higher level

We can look at them and your management can too. The important takeaway is not that they don't know or can't learn, it is that their sense of control over you is more important than any measurable truth. Once you realise it's just a dysfunctional personality trait it becomes a lot easier to understand why it's so hard to change.

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#77

Post by croon »

nabdab wrote: post #50
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #2

I tried sharing these studies at my ex employers in Europe hoping they'd spare me the hellish 40 minute commute in stop/start traffic and they weren't interested at all. Management there only values "butt time in seats" and the ability to come over and interrupt you by tapping you on the shoulder whenever they need something. As one of my ex CEOs put it: "If I don't see my employees stressing out at thier desks I get…

It’s a valid concern. If you don’t have transparency into ongoing work, then you aren’t ready for remote workers. If the only method for your manager to know what people are working on is to tap people on shoulders, then doing that isn’t a “bad behavior” for the manager, it’s necessary behavior. Of cause a better solution is to have trust and plans. (Agile, scrum, waterfall, napkin sketches or whatever it doesn’t mat…

> If the only method for your manager to know what people are working on is to tap people on shoulders, then doing that isn’t a “bad behavior” for the manager, it’s necessary behavior.

It is bad behavior, for two simple reasons:

1) The tapping of the shoulder (both literal and figurative) doesn't award any information, only the question afterward. So focus on what that question is, and implement whatever information that gets you (if any) into another system that doesn't require you huffing around interrupting the flow of your employees.

2) If that is your only method, you have already failed, and anything you do in that position that is not directly related to getting out of that position, is bad behavior.

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#79

Post by growlist »

nabdab wrote: post #50
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #2

I tried sharing these studies at my ex employers in Europe hoping they'd spare me the hellish 40 minute commute in stop/start traffic and they weren't interested at all. Management there only values "butt time in seats" and the ability to come over and interrupt you by tapping you on the shoulder whenever they need something. As one of my ex CEOs put it: "If I don't see my employees stressing out at thier desks I get…

It’s a valid concern. If you don’t have transparency into ongoing work, then you aren’t ready for remote workers. If the only method for your manager to know what people are working on is to tap people on shoulders, then doing that isn’t a “bad behavior” for the manager, it’s necessary behavior. Of cause a better solution is to have trust and plans. (Agile, scrum, waterfall, napkin sketches or whatever it doesn’t mat…

One thing that amuses me - you can provide the very simplest tools (such as an issue tracker report) and some managers will still utterly refuse to use them, to the point of open hostility, because it somehow undermines their position to open a link and read an online report as opposed to asking a subordinate to read it to them instead ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: The benefits of a more asynchronous workplace

#80

Post by quadrifoliate »

krageon wrote: post #74
quadrifoliate wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I honestly think that EVERYONE should be using a ticket tracking system and just put assignments in a person's queue. I don't see why this is such a big deal or looked down upon. As I see it, none of the queuing stuff is really controversial. > It's so easy to see what everyone is working on, run reports to see how long things took This, on the other hand is usually what's controversial, and the reasoning behind th…

> management using past data as a stick to drive "faster" future development Of course bad management is bad, but the idea that the type of metrics available to them make any material difference is not one that has any merit to my mind. A bad manager will always make your life hell, regardless of what measuring tools they have available.

> A bad manager will always make your life hell, regardless of what measuring tools they have available.

Correct. That's why developers with bad managers strive to make as few measuring tools available to them as possible. In other words, if you're a manager and your employees seem to resent and fight against more ways of measuring "velocity" and the like, you should probably consider that your usage of this data and how you express the results might need some work.

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