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Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

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Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#71

Post by ameister14 »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #70
close04 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After working with so many MBAs from prestigious schools I find it very hard to take this kind of title at face value, before seeing the person in action. Most had an MBA at 23 years old, basically jumping straight from university classes to MBA classes with nothing in between. At best the MBA did not bring anything. At worst it made some feel so entitled that they actually performed far worse. I fail to see the adde…

CV fluff is the important bit. I'm willing to bet most MBA students directly from undergrad with no work experience between are only getting an MBA either because: 1) they couldn't get a good high paying job right out of college. and/or 2) they read that an MBA is a good investment, and MBA students on average make $X more per year (without doing their MBA calculations and doing the time discount and opportunity cost…

Well, as to #2, if you get an MBA right out of college it's theoretically more likely to be worth it, simply because the multiplier effect has more years to work with

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#72

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

jeffreyrogers wrote: post #62
refurb wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the top ranked MBA programs require 3-5 years of work experience to get in. I think it’s Harvard that allows a very small subset to go directly from undergrad.

I know people who've done a 2+2 program at Harvard, where they're admitted after undergrad but have to work for two years before being admitted. I guess it's possible to go straight to an MBA, but I don't see why it's desirable for most people. Most MBA students see it more as a credential and networking opportunity.

Doesn't this work like an assembly line now?

I'm under the impression that a lot of schools hire students like this, and then there are employers like Bain and Cisco that are lined up to hire them for two years and then hand then back over to the progran.

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#73

Post by vo2maxer »

rswail wrote: post #26
Vaslo wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You clearly have no idea what is being taught in Top 20 MBA programs. Many MBA programs are graduating people that get both heavy technical training in their program (stats, data engineering, coding, etc) as well as learning how to properly manage individuals with technical skills.

You clearly have no idea about what I know or don't know about MBA programs or my overall experience or career. I'm not saying that the skills taught are not useful, what I'm saying is that the concept of a generalized "business administration" course that somehow qualifies you to run any and all businesses is basically flawed. Management is a skill or craft, not a profession. Harvard's model of case studies is a use…

When I applied for an MBA, Harvard was known for a strong general management program as distinct from Wharton’s more quantitative and finance oriented. I chose the latter precisely because of this emphasis. I entered with years of experience in the medical field, and much older than most students (I did the full time program). Did it help me later with anything? Not really, other than the prestige associated with it and getting the top C-level job at a large medical group. Would I do it again? No. I wish I’d had the foresight to go for CS (early 90s), which I’m furiously self-teaching now. I’ve (mildly) encouraged my kids to stay away from the MBA fluff, even from Medicine, and go for hard science, mathematics, and computer science.

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#74

Post by airstrike »

rswail wrote: post #6

Good. The rise of the MBA has seen the downfall of quality. "Business Administration" is not something that can be taught in such a generic way that an MBA qualifies you to actually run a business. In particular, the rise of Financial "Engineering" has led to huge inequality and the total disconnection of "Wall St" from "Main St" such that their relationship has been completely inverted.

It's not really that generalized as you can pick 1 or more majors and focus on what you want to learn most. Not to mention each MBA school has different characteristics, attracting different candidates and campus recruiters. Stanford and Booth couldn't be more different if they tried.

MBA graduates are also not fit for running literally any business. The only thing employers know is that if you come from a top 10 MBA, you probably check the box on being pretty smart (the GMAT is a tough exam) while also possessing soft skills, being personable, ready to meet with clients or manage people and probably well-connected. It's a pedigree that allegedly excludes the dumb rich kids

Now your claim about Wall Street is just uninformed FUD. Most people on the street do not have an MBA, let alone one from a top school, particularly on the Sales & Trading branch of Wall Street that is usually what people associate with poor ethics and exploiting Main Street

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#75

Post by mrwebmaster »

Isn't this old news?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424053111903532804576566... (2011)

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10000872396390444433504577651... (2012)

https://www.wsj.com/articles/wharton-applications-drop-12-ov... (2013)

https://www.wsj.com/articles/m-b-a-applications-decline-for-... (2017)

https://www.wsj.com/articles/red-flag-for-u-s-business-schoo... (2017)

https://www.wsj.com/articles/m-b-a-applications-keep-falling... (2018)

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#76

Post by bitL »

cfontes wrote: post #60
bitL wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd would give you an overview of instruments already existing you can plug into your business and skip some "research" phases without reinventing the wheel multiple times. It's basically time-compressor if you use it right; you can spend 2-5 years in inventing already invented stuff or just take what is out there and customize for your needs. You could probably get something similar if you have access to good advis…

Or you can read some good books and learn from your peers through networking with other "business" people.

Yes. In my case paying for something is however a motivation to finish it actually as there is a stream of cool distractions I could do instead. So I pay for courses with hard deadlines which forces me to study the topics. If it were for free, I'd most likely prioritize something else in its place. It also allows systematic approach that is hard to do just by interacting with peers or from books only.

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#77

Post by bluedevil2k »

helpPeople wrote: post #53

I'm not sure what an "elite" college teaches that a "regular" college doesn't. Maybe quality of student is better, but the content seems negligible. Heck I find the personalities of young "elite" grads need additional shaping in the real world.

Elite schools move much faster and cover more material than a regular school would. Obviously with the smarter kids at the elite school they can get more advanced.

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#78

Post by behnamoh »

aoveri wrote: post #50

Having started my own company and done everything from doing coffee runs for my team to writing investment briefs, I'm not sure what an MBA would teach me? Not being snarky, genuinely curious as to what benefit I could derive as I've always seen as something that I'd eventually pursue.

It's the systematic approach to business problems that makes an MBA worth pursuing. I finished my MBA program last year and I couldn't be happier with the breadth of knowledge it helped me acquire. Some other comments are also true: MBA will provide lots of opportunities to meet with the giants in your field and make connections. Internships also contribute a lot to your future job prospects.

I've also come to really appreciate the "don't re-invent the wheel" phrase. Most MBA courses include a number of case studies that are your most precious source of information about real events in the business sector and how those led to peculiar problems and the creative solutions that were thought of to solve those problems.

In this sense, an MBA is much different than just crunching financial numbers to calculate NPV, etc. Hope this helps!

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#79

Post by bluedevil2k »

dinodub wrote: post #8

This is good news for the planet's health. Hopefully state legislatures, university administrators, and bankers will get the signal-- the tuition versus value equation is makes less and less sense. Especially with many free & low cost self-taught education options online, and the debt burden facing millennials.

I'm sorry, this is just wrong. If you go into a MSFT or Google wanting to be a product manager and tell them "no I don't have an MBA, but I DID do some self-taught classes online" they are not going to take that seriously.

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#80

Post by notfromhere »

airstrike wrote: post #74
rswail wrote: post #6

Good. The rise of the MBA has seen the downfall of quality. "Business Administration" is not something that can be taught in such a generic way that an MBA qualifies you to actually run a business. In particular, the rise of Financial "Engineering" has led to huge inequality and the total disconnection of "Wall St" from "Main St" such that their relationship has been completely inverted.

It's not really that generalized as you can pick 1 or more majors and focus on what you want to learn most. Not to mention each MBA school has different characteristics, attracting different candidates and campus recruiters. Stanford and Booth couldn't be more different if they tried. MBA graduates are also not fit for running literally any business. The only thing employers know is that if you come from a top 10 MBA…

Folks on the trading side definitely don't. Folks on the PE side definitely do, especially the decisionmakers
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