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I’m Convinced We Found Evidence of Life on Mars in the 1970s

blogs.scientificamerican.com

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Re: I’m Convinced We Found Evidence of Life on Mars in the 1970s

#71

Post by mindcrime »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #15
psaux wrote: post #7

I often wonder why these are always auxiliary conversations. Ever since I was young, like most kids (I have 4), I also had this deep yearning for knowledge on life external to earth. Wonder why this never has gone mainstream.

Let's assume for a moment that we did find something resembling simple organic life on Mars and confirmed that earth isn't the only life bearing planet. What functionally changes for our existential understanding of the universe? I'd argue little to nothing. We'd learn a bit more about organic life, but no fundamental philosophical or existential questions would be resolved. Life has been confirmed to be able to thri…

I think it's a shame that you're being downvoted for nothing more than expressing a reasonable, albeit apparently unpopular, opinion.

For plenty of us, AndrewKemendo is right... learning that there is life on Mars would not answer any particularly fundamental questions. Maybe because a lot of people simply take it as a given that life exists on other planets (whether or not Mars is one of them isn't really a big issue) because they don't have the hubris to believe that there's anything so special about Earth as to believe that life could only emerge here.

Frankly, you can count me in that crowd. I'd be more surprised if it was somehow proven that there isn't life anywhere else.

To me, "fundamental questions" would be more like:

1. Is free will possible? If so, how?

2. How did the universe begin? If there was a "Big Bang" as popularly described, where did all the matter come from that expanded out of the initial singularity? If time did not exist before the universe began, how did the transition from state "no universe" to state "universe" happen, since - presumably - nothing can "happen" without time.

3. What is time?

4. Is space discrete or continuous?

5. Is time discrete or continuous?

6. Are there multiple dimensions of time, analogous to the multiple dimensions of space we know about?

7. Is our "4-D" world actually embedded in a higher-dimensional reality of some sort that we can't access/understand/see/etc.?

8. Is our world a simulation (ala The Matrix)?

9. How, exactly, do fields (electromagnetic field / higgs field / etc) permeate all of space and permit the existence of particles like photons or the higgs boson?

10. Is there actually a way to unify gravity and quantum mechanics?

11. What is dark matter? Where did it come from?

12. How will the universe end? Big crunch? Big freeze? Big bounce? The simulation ends and we all just disappear? Other?

13. Why is there any matter at all in the universe? The fact that there is implies a certain fundamental asymmetry to the universe, since if matter and anti-matter were created in equal amounts at the beginning, they should have annihilated each other leaving no matter behind.

14. Why are right-handed people more common than left-handed people?

15. Why does the universe itself appear to have a "handedness" property[1]?

[1]: https://arxiv.org/pdf/0812.3437.pdf

Re: I’m Convinced We Found Evidence of Life on Mars in the 1970s

#72

Post by noetic_techy »

amingilani wrote: post #62

> Inexplicably, over the 43 years since Viking, none of NASA’s subsequent Mars landers has carried a life detection instrument to follow up on these exciting results I'm very surprised by that. Especially since, as the article says, "NASA maintains the search for alien life among its highest priorities". I thought that would obviously translate to sending life-detection instruments to B̶a̶r̶s̶o̶o̶m̶ Mars.

This fact often catches people by surprise when I tell them also. The more conspiratorial theory is that JPL prefers not to include life detection equipment because it would mean the end of robotic missions and more of an emphasis to get humans there to do real biology, which is more the domain of Houston Mission Control. Follow the money...

Re: I’m Convinced We Found Evidence of Life on Mars in the 1970s

#73

Post by zipwitch »

justinator wrote: post #18
api wrote: post #4

I get the feeling that contrary to rhetoric the search for life on Mars or anywhere else is almost an anti-priority. Not much designed to look for life has been sent since Viking in spite of direct observation of water ice, brine, and other features suggesting ideal landing sites for such experiments. If perclorates were the cause of the Viking positive as many suggest, why not send a new experiment designed to rule…

I mean, you're probably right. If there was life found on Mars, there would be precedence to protect it - I could see this even stopping ANY manned missions (fear of contamination). If the planet is dead, we as a civilization get the privilege to do whatever we want with it. Also a dead planet means the idea of the Monotheistic God kind of remains. Ignorance is bliss.

Mars is getting contaminated in the near future, whether we find life on it or not. Whether we collectively want it to be or not. Given the ever-decreasing cost of launches into space, the increasing access to small satellites, I think suspect it's inevitable that some collection of Earth microbes will get a ride to Mars within the next century. Whether it's a motivated team of grad students, an obsessed billionaire, or a small nation that doesn't decontaminate its lander before launch, it's going to happen.

Re: I’m Convinced We Found Evidence of Life on Mars in the 1970s

#74

Post by newnewpdro »

CoryG89 wrote: post #20
newnewpdro wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I think there's a conspiracy, I don't think one has to try very hard to imagine reasons why the powers that be would suppress such discoveries. Consider for instance how many US citizens are still religious today, and largely govern their lives according to religious beliefs. Consider how the current president has deliberately weakened the separation of church and state by making it legal for churches to be…

People always claim this, but I'm not convinced. We've had a million scientific discoveries that for all practical purposes disprove a lot of religious claims. People seem to either just adapt their beliefs, ie. things move from literal to symbolic, or people simply choose not to believe or consider the facts despite clear evidence. I don't think simple facts or evidence will ever seriously threaten religious dogma f…

I agree that it will, for some portion, but that portion is ever diminishing.

An irrefutable discovery of complex alien life on another planet would, in my opinion, undoubtedly accelerate that rate of diminishment.

In the mean time, many people use the absence of any such discovery, as proof that earth is inexplicably unique so some magic creator deliberately blessed us to be here on this sacred planet.

Re: I’m Convinced We Found Evidence of Life on Mars in the 1970s

#75

Post by noetic_techy »

ropiwqefjnpoa wrote: post #3

IDK, what would be the motive to hide that?

Less robotic missions, less money for JPL. More maned missions, more money for Houston Mission Control. I remember reading an article long ago about how none of the robotic missions to Mars can actually detect life and how strange and contrary to the rhetoric that fact is. When you look at it in terms of funding, it all makes sense.

Re: I’m Convinced We Found Evidence of Life on Mars in the 1970s

#76

Post by monadgonad »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #46
cabalamat wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What functionally changes for our existential understanding of the universe? I'd argue little to nothing. It depends on how different it is chemically form earth life. If it is similar enough that it shares a common origin, it's no big deal. If it isn't, then that's a massive deal because it means life originated twice in one solar system, therefore is probably widespread.

Whats the common origin of organic life again?

That it originated on one planet and was sent to the other by ejecta, as mentioned in the article.

Re: I’m Convinced We Found Evidence of Life on Mars in the 1970s

#77

Post by ianai »

alister wrote: post #47

What, no mention of ALH84001? I was mesmerized by the live TV press conference by a large group of NASA scientists back in 1996 of evidence of life on Mars from the analysis of a meteorite: "Scientists headed by David McKay of the JohnsonSpaceCenter in Houston found that the rock, called ALH84001, had a peculiar chemical makeup. It contained a combination of minerals and carbon compounds that on Earth are created by…

I fear that the “it’s never aliens” credo was taken to the pathological case. Nothing can be life so why look for it? Nothing can be life, so any really complicated scenario not involving life must be true, always.

Re: I’m Convinced We Found Evidence of Life on Mars in the 1970s

#78

Post by [deleted] »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #69
JasonFruit wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, you're really smart! I'm glad you're here to discuss things with us. That being said, for most people who aren't operating on your level, the fundamental existential questions haven't changed much in a few hundred years. "Are we alone in the universe?" is probably among the newest for us.

I'm assuming you're being sarcastic. If so it's unfortunate that just answering honestly warrants such hostility.

[deleted]

Re: I’m Convinced We Found Evidence of Life on Mars in the 1970s

#80

Post by justinator »

sosborn wrote: post #30
justinator wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, you're probably right. If there was life found on Mars, there would be precedence to protect it - I could see this even stopping ANY manned missions (fear of contamination). If the planet is dead, we as a civilization get the privilege to do whatever we want with it. Also a dead planet means the idea of the Monotheistic God kind of remains. Ignorance is bliss.

> Also a dead planet means the idea of the Monotheistic God kind of remains. I don't follow why life on another planet would have any bearing on the idea of a Monotheistic God.

It makes God's ultimate and unquestioning perfection in creating the Universe called essentially into question. If there is life on Mars, then it's no small leap to think there's life outside of the Solar System. What place then do we, as God's children have in the Universe, and in God's grand plan?

Stuff like that.

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