For context, I think it's an answer to this open letter from GNU developers: https://guix.gnu.org/blog/2019/joint-statement-on-the-gnu-pr...
And my answer to them: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreplanet-discuss/2019-...
No Radical Changes in GNU Project
71–80 of 155 posts
Re: No Radical Changes in GNU Project
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
[redacted]
This whole thing started with a pedantic e-mail and a blogger that got offended and decided to slander RMS. The media then lied about RMS defending a pedophile. And now 'SnarkAsh is implying that RMS was harassing people by exposing his manhood. This is why fighting the cancel mob is so important. Lies accumulate.
> The media then lied about RMS defending a pedophile.
Source? I saw an article by John Gruber[0] that retracted some specific allegations about him, saying that for these specific allegations RMS was being conflated with ESR, another known sexual predator who has some fame in the early world of FOSS.I saw nothing lying about him being a pedophile. That came a leaked email to the MIT CSAIL mailing list (which had been confirmed by multiple sources) and from his personal blog, on a widely circulated article. I'd link to the specific one (edit: [2]), but when searching Google for the query 'child pornography site:stallman.org'[1] there are far too many instances of him commenting on child pornography in the news and such — it's a topic he has spoken at lengths about, and advocating for it is not something new for him.
The article by John Gruber retracts a specific sexual assault allegation. I don't think that he should be tried or burned at the stake for something that he hasn't done, and I don't personally know any other specific allegations of sexual assault on his behalf either. But to say that the media saying RMS defending a pedophile is a lie is silly. The man's a known pedophile sympathizer, and clearly based on the dates published he doesn't intend to retract any of his own articles proving such any time soon.
Also, to be clear, the Vice article that you are thinking of[3] that said he defended a pedophile has an excerpt straight from the CSAIL mailing list that's been confirmed by multiple others.
Seriously, click that [1] link and try to say he's not a pedophile sympathizer…
[0]: https://daringfireball.net/2019/10/correction_regarding_an_e...
[1]: https://www.google.com/search?q=child+pornography+site%3Asta...
[2]: https://stallman.org/archives/2006-may-aug.html
> I am skeptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children. The arguments that it causes harm seem to be based on cases which aren't voluntary, which are then stretched by parents who are horrified by the idea that their little baby is maturing.
[3]: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/9ke3ke/famed-computer-sci...
Edit: added [2] and [3].
It's not just Emacs that makes RMS a bad person.
Re: No Radical Changes in GNU Project
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
Contrast that with Ellen Degeneres responding to people dismayed that she sat next to George W. Bush during a game (warning, video in the tweet): https://twitter.com/TheEllenShow/status/1181395164499070976 Basically, it's okay to be friends with people we disagree with (and really, we ought to).
George Bush killed a million Iraqis in a war based on fabricated evidence of an Iraqi WMD program
Americans killed a million Iraqis in a war based on fabricated evidence of an Iraqi WMD program. We're all pretty much complicit. If there's any smaller group to be mad at, I'd say it's anybody who didn't oppose that course, but more likely, the U.S. military complex.
Ironically, she didn't catch flack for George being president of the Iraqi war, she caught flack for George's stance on LGBT issues when he was president.
Re: No Radical Changes in GNU Project
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Stallman’s behavior over the years has undermined a core value of the GNU project: the empowerment of all computer users The notion that empowered means shielded from opinions you might disagree with seems odd.
Contrast that with Ellen Degeneres responding to people dismayed that she sat next to George W. Bush during a game (warning, video in the tweet): https://twitter.com/TheEllenShow/status/1181395164499070976 Basically, it's okay to be friends with people we disagree with (and really, we ought to).
Love too be friends with a war criminal and mass murderer.
Re: No Radical Changes in GNU Project
#75So RMS resigned from the FSF and his role(s) at MIT, but he's still on with GNU?
According to [1], GNU isn't a legal entity. [1] http://wingolog.org/archives/2019/10/08/thoughts-on-rms-and-...
GNU (and I think the GNU Project) is trademarked so there is a legal entity that own the trademark. There is also the domain gnu.org which domain owner is a legal entity. There is the publisher who publish information on the site and distribute the copyrighted works, which depending on the law where the server is located may or may not also be a legal entity. Last we have the Free System Distribution Guidelines (GNU FSDG) which is maintained by the FSF Licensing and Compliance Lab, which I would assume is owned by FSF.
Re: No Radical Changes in GNU Project
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Stallman’s behavior over the years has undermined a core value of the GNU project: the empowerment of all computer users The notion that empowered means shielded from opinions you might disagree with seems odd.
Contrast that with Ellen Degeneres responding to people dismayed that she sat next to George W. Bush during a game (warning, video in the tweet): https://twitter.com/TheEllenShow/status/1181395164499070976 Basically, it's okay to be friends with people we disagree with (and really, we ought to).
[flagged]
Re: No Radical Changes in GNU Project
#77Excellent. This entire incident has been re-enforcing of how willing the media is to lie and how little people care when the lies support a narrative they believe in. Here is what reporter Edward Ongweso Jr. wrote for Vice [1]: > Early in the thread, Stallman insists that the “most plausible scenario” is that Epstein’s underage victims were “entirely willing” while being trafficked. Here is what Stallman actually wro…
"I am skeptical of the claim that voluntarily [sic] pedophilia harms children."
https://stallman.org/archives/2006-mar-jun.html#05%20June%20...
Re: No Radical Changes in GNU Project
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, AGPL was the answer to that issue, but it hasn't really done much. I think part of the impact was things like GitHub recommending the MIT license.
Also you can ask 20 honest developers what they think AGPL means and get 3 or more wildly different explanations, at least if you include "I've no idea except it also works lver the network".
Or you can stop spreading the FUD and point people to: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-affero-gpl.html
Re: No Radical Changes in GNU Project
#79I don't want to get into the weeds discussing the ins and outs of the various things that have happened with RMS and the FSF. I have my own opinions on whether or not these moves were warranted. Separate from that I guess my largest worry is that this is another step on the road to a complete neutering of the Free Software movement, and the increasing corporate enclosure of the software commons. The one thing I feel…
RMS is too black and white. It was probably a good thing to get the project started but I believe that it's counter-productive now. It's a bit like some people are good founders, but then you need a proper CEO to run the company. Having the project switch leader might actually be a good thing for the GNU project.
But like you said, we'll see where it goes, it might not be all bad.
Re: No Radical Changes in GNU Project
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
Mailing lists are still the best async method for discussing meta issues with regards to a project, when the people who work on it span the globe. Basically you post to the list if you have a meta issue and then everyone replies. It can get pretty tough to follow if you're using email, but most of these had (still have?) mail news gateways, so you could use a threaded Usenet reader to keep track of all the forks in t…
Thank you for your response. I have a better understanding now. How is spam dealt with? Do people get banned quickly? Also, who archives these emails. Do they automatically get archived for public viewing?
all of these are up to the list. various policies
spam: some run filters on the list, some let it through
banning: some lists are moderated where posts go through moderators, some are not, ban tendency is up to the list administrator
archives: some listserve software has built in archives, other people run add-on web applications, others dont archive at all.
see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mailing_list_software , etc.