Stolen laptop contains cancer research data • Hacker News Board

Re: Stolen laptop contains cancer research data

#71

Post by gte910h » Fri, Jan 14, 2011, 6:10 PM UTC

edw519 wrote: post #60

sophacles wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sick of this attitude of "Always be super nice and make sure you over mother your users" crap. You know what: If my car engine seizes because I haven't changed the oil, no one tells the car makers or the mechanics they didn't do thier job right. If I leave the oven on all night and get CO poisoning, no one blames the oven maker for it. If someone doesn't buy renter's insurance we don't blame the apartment owner f…

Just because this person did not bother to find out about backups from her IT does not make it ITs problem. It was IT's problem before this person ever came along. That's the whole point. A few quick questions: 1. Are you capable of implementing an IT infrastructure where it is impossible for a user to lose mission critical data? If not, then you're incompetent. Move along, please. 2. Are you willing to implement an…

>. Are you willing to implement an IT infrastructure where it is impossible for a user to lose mission critical data? If not, then you're insubordinate. Move along, please

Bosses don't always let you stick truecrypt on everything, especially if they say, have macs.

Most companies aren't run by the IT guy, and no universities are. You don't get that authority most places.

Re: Stolen laptop contains cancer research data

#72

Post by jacquesm » Fri, Jan 14, 2011, 6:11 PM UTC

edw519 wrote: post #60

sophacles wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sick of this attitude of "Always be super nice and make sure you over mother your users" crap. You know what: If my car engine seizes because I haven't changed the oil, no one tells the car makers or the mechanics they didn't do thier job right. If I leave the oven on all night and get CO poisoning, no one blames the oven maker for it. If someone doesn't buy renter's insurance we don't blame the apartment owner f…

Just because this person did not bother to find out about backups from her IT does not make it ITs problem. It was IT's problem before this person ever came along. That's the whole point. A few quick questions: 1. Are you capable of implementing an IT infrastructure where it is impossible for a user to lose mission critical data? If not, then you're incompetent. Move along, please. 2. Are you willing to implement an…

Any tools you use you should learn how to use first. That goes for a knife as well as a laptop. When I see people use stuff with sharp edges I invariably cringe as they point them at themselves and at others while putting force on them. Even passing the scissors from one hand to another comes with a protocol (sharp end towards the giver).

Laptops are powertools, use them well and they'll do you good, abuse them and they'll eat your research data.

Odds are the researcher messed up and uses the 'theft' as an excuse for something or other, otherwise that reward would have been a bit higher, $1,000, $500 of which is probably the second hand value of the laptop, that can't have been much data.

I agree with your basic premise that we collectively should help to make stuff like this impossible (dropbox is a nice step in the right direction making it easy to have multiple versions of your stuff) I just don't believe this particular case is a good example of what happens when 'we' fail. This user carries the blame and responsibility, not the IT staff there, nor the manufacturer of the gear.

Smart enough to use a laptop? -> Smart enough to burn a DVD once a week or so. Maximum loss is one week of data, and that's assuming you place those DVDs in a different physical location from the laptop.

Of course that's too much of an investment for such valuable data.

Re: Stolen laptop contains cancer research data

#73

Post by jokermatt999 » Fri, Jan 14, 2011, 6:14 PM UTC

Splines wrote: post #23

nfg wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm in the same boat (still am). I hardly ever back up my data. How much data are we talking about here? <10 Gigabytes? Solutions like Dropbox are just so simple for data in that range that you'd be crazy not to use them.

The only irreplaceable data I have is photos/videos of the family. It's getting to be about 10 GB - I've got two hard drives in my PC that I'm planning to mirror the data across. At the very least it'll save me from hard drive failure. Theft/acts of god are something I haven't planned for. I have thought about burning a bunch of DVDs (of just the photos) and storing them somewhere else (work/relatives/bank). I use dr…

10 GB is also small and cheap enough to buy a USB drive for and back it up on. It's what, $10 for a 16 gig thumbdrive or so? Afaik, they also have less concern about bit-rot than DVDs or CDs, not to mention the ease of use.

Re: Stolen laptop contains cancer research data

#74

Post by cubix » Fri, Jan 14, 2011, 6:23 PM UTC

edw519 wrote: post #60

sophacles wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sick of this attitude of "Always be super nice and make sure you over mother your users" crap. You know what: If my car engine seizes because I haven't changed the oil, no one tells the car makers or the mechanics they didn't do thier job right. If I leave the oven on all night and get CO poisoning, no one blames the oven maker for it. If someone doesn't buy renter's insurance we don't blame the apartment owner f…

Just because this person did not bother to find out about backups from her IT does not make it ITs problem. It was IT's problem before this person ever came along. That's the whole point. A few quick questions: 1. Are you capable of implementing an IT infrastructure where it is impossible for a user to lose mission critical data? If not, then you're incompetent. Move along, please. 2. Are you willing to implement an…

Are you capable of implementing an IT infrastructure where it is impossible for a user to lose mission critical data?

Impossible? Why is perfection the standard? At a minimum she could have bought a $50 external drive at Best Buy, used the back-up software included in the OS, and the probability of this outcome occurring drops substantially.

This is basic stuff that anyone doing cancer research should understand. The fact that she admits to feeling guilty is an indication that she knows better.

Blaming the IT department, in this instance, would be like not brushing your teeth and blaming your dentist when they start falling out.

Re: Stolen laptop contains cancer research data

#75

Post by nkassis » Fri, Jan 14, 2011, 6:49 PM UTC

randomwalker wrote: post #45

edw519 wrote: post #21

Sorry guys, but most of the comments in this thread remind me of why we IT people have so much bad PR to overcome. We're blaming the user for our mistake. That's like blaming the cow for leaving the pasture because one of us forgot to lock the gate. The simple fact is that this user should have never been able to be in a position for this to happen. Where were the IT security policies and procedures? Why was mission…

What you say makes perfect sense, but as an academic I have to say it is extremely unlikely that the policies and procedures you mention can be carried over from corporations to academia in a straightforward way. Academics react extremely badly to being told to follow procedures as part of their daily workflow, especially ones they don't understand the importance of. In fact, a big part of the reason that they're in…

There is nothing wrong with pine (well other than mutt is better) in 2011.

Re: Stolen laptop contains cancer research data

#76

Post by jerf » Fri, Jan 14, 2011, 8:13 PM UTC

lkrubner wrote: post #16

The reward is only $1,000. While their research may have offered some interesting insights into cancer, they clearly didn't have an absolute cure (for prostate cancer, which is mentioned in the article). If they had a real cure, then around this moment Merk would step in and offer a $10,000,000 reward for the return of the laptop, in exchange for the right to commercialize the technology. I've several friends who hav…

Reading between the lines and with a healthy dose of cynicism and probability, what is "really" on this laptop is enough irreplaceable data that if not recovered, it will significantly impact and possibly even ruin this researcher's career. Odds are good there's at least one grant with now-unattainable expectations/deadlines. There is a small but finite chance that losing it might actually set a cure of one sort or another back, but, sadly, a much larger chance that it won't help a cure and never would have. Most cancer research doesn't advance the cure dramatically at one stroke, or it would be cured, after all.

(I'm not saying research is worthless. I'm saying that, on the whole, plink a random study and all the research behind done for it and the world won't be very different on the whole. The whole matters more than the parts.)

Still worth $1000 to get it back, for both the data and the career.

Re: Stolen laptop contains cancer research data

#77

Post by michael_dorfman » Fri, Jan 14, 2011, 8:40 PM UTC

maukdaddy wrote: post #37

michael_dorfman wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? They are, after all, her employers-- and they've got quite a bit of time and money invested in her research. I have to assume that they have some kind of standards for the care of data, and I certainly hope that keeping exactly one copy of the dataset, without backups, on a laptop which frequently travels out of the lab, is in serious contravention of a number of their policies.

You're making way too many assumptions. You can't fire someone because a laptop is stolen or lost. The University should have provided a means of centralized backup for data.

I am making assumptions. So are you, of course.

I am assuming that the University did provide a means of centralized backup, and she failed to avail herself of it. This is based on the assumption that it is more likely that one researcher screwed up, than that the entire University is woefully incompetent.

Also, note that you assumed that I meant "firing" when I said "disciplinary action." I was thinking more along the lines of a note in her file, and a stern talking-to.

Re: Stolen laptop contains cancer research data

#78

Post by edw519 » Fri, Jan 14, 2011, 11:12 PM UTC

sophacles wrote: post #67

edw519 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because this person did not bother to find out about backups from her IT does not make it ITs problem. It was IT's problem before this person ever came along. That's the whole point. A few quick questions: 1. Are you capable of implementing an IT infrastructure where it is impossible for a user to lose mission critical data? If not, then you're incompetent. Move along, please. 2. Are you willing to implement an…

Bullshit. The vehicle fleet manager doesn't make it impossible to run out of gas. The accounting department doesn't make it impossible to max the corporate credit card you have. They provide infrastructure, you have responsibilities in it too. Further, and I'm really really suggesting you read this slow, and look up words you don't understand in the dictionary, universities just don't work this way. There is no centr…

It would be nice if you could channel that energy into something more constructive than personally insulting me. Others far more influential have tried and failed to do much with that.

I do care, however, how your behavior affects this community. Others smarter than either one of us have worked hard to keep it what it is. Please remember the guidelines:

http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Peace.

Re: Stolen laptop contains cancer research data

#79

Post by nkassis » Sat, Jan 15, 2011, 1:15 AM UTC

radioactive21 wrote: post #44

I work for a University and I laugh so hard every time I hear this. For the people that say this should be an IT policy issue let me explain to you how academic people work. Professors and researchers are KINGS and QUEENS. You CANNOT tell them what to do, nor can you force ANYTHING on them. The only exception are the engineering professors for obvious reasons they have their shit together. Other faculty are just plai…

Just wanted to point out, in those situation keeping written records of communications like you did can save your ass.

Re: Stolen laptop contains cancer research data

#80

Post by sophacles » Sat, Jan 15, 2011, 2:24 AM UTC

edw519 wrote: post #78

sophacles wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bullshit. The vehicle fleet manager doesn't make it impossible to run out of gas. The accounting department doesn't make it impossible to max the corporate credit card you have. They provide infrastructure, you have responsibilities in it too. Further, and I'm really really suggesting you read this slow, and look up words you don't understand in the dictionary, universities just don't work this way. There is no centr…

It would be nice if you could channel that energy into something more constructive than personally insulting me. Others far more influential have tried and failed to do much with that. I do care, however, how your behavior affects this community. Others smarter than either one of us have worked hard to keep it what it is. Please remember the guidelines: http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Peace.

1. This is how I talk. I call BS when I see it.

2. Follow the guidelines yourself, the condescending crap doesn't fly too well, and is no more or less insulting than anything I said. Further look at the insults you directed towards me. Do you really think your insults don't count but mine do? That act you are committing there, it's called hypocrisy.

3. It is sad you must fall back on pointing out the guidelines instead of addressing the parts about how authority doesn't work according to your claims. It is either an admission of ignorance of how things really work, or a diversionary tactic to avoid having to admit wrong. (PS -- continuing hte diversion about guidelines doesn't change this set of conclusions, no matter how you justify it, the deduction doesn't change).

4. I've been here about as long as you have. Feel free to peruse my comment history. I gladly contribute nicely to non-moralizing discussions, and I call people out when they act disingenuous or jerky. Your attempt to change your moralizing into some sort of "look at me I'm a pillar of the community" is at best an attempt to pull some dirty politics style trick. This loses you even more of the moral high ground you pretend to argue from.