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A ‘Grass-Roots’ Campaign to Take Down Amazon Is Funded By Its Biggest Rivals

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Re: A ‘Grass-Roots’ Campaign to Take Down Amazon Is Funded By Its Biggest Rivals

#71

Post by rdtwo »

bin0 wrote: post #63
rdtwo wrote: post #28

Idk why they don’t just slam them on lead paint and fake products. You could make a fucking Super Bowl level ad and do serious damage to amazon on real issues.

Because they would have to spend years in court litigating whether or not that was slander. Consumers have also been shown to respond better to positive causes than negative ones, and a non-profit funded by these guys is better equipped to spin it as a positive "working for a better future" type thing than them all running "Amazon bad" ads.

Just think of the press that an ad slamming amazon for that stuff would get. Plus you can avoid slander by either doing a real test or just by not naming amazon and implying it’s them.

Re: A ‘Grass-Roots’ Campaign to Take Down Amazon Is Funded By Its Biggest Rivals

#72

Post by Porthos9K »

ben509 wrote: post #67
Porthos9K wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out the ingredients on your favorite soft drink. There's probably all sorts of stuff listed that has been shown to cause cancer in rats.

What about in humans at normal doses?

We're running a half-assed trial on the general public right now, only without a defined "normal dose", control group, compensation, or informed consent.

Re: A ‘Grass-Roots’ Campaign to Take Down Amazon Is Funded By Its Biggest Rivals

#73

Post by [deleted] »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #24
benologist wrote: post #13

I think the takeaway is companies should compete on ethics but be transparent about it. If corporations openly call out each other's malignant actions that's a huge win for us all in holding them to a higher standard. I don't believe the "poor Amazon" angle for a moment though. A lot of the "campaign" against Amazon takes place in EU courtrooms where no rival company is focusing our attention on their transgressions.…

A lot of the "campaign" against Amazon takes place in EU courtrooms where no rival company is focusing our attention on their transgressions. It seems unlikely that competitors have no influence on what the EU chooses to pursue in courts.

[deleted]

Re: A ‘Grass-Roots’ Campaign to Take Down Amazon Is Funded By Its Biggest Rivals

#74

Post by groby_b »

Porthos9K wrote: post #22

I'm surprised more cyberpunk authors didn't anticipate that wars between corporations wouldn't be fought using hackers or "street samurai", but with teams of propagandists competing to do a better job of bullshitting the general public. Yes, I'm calling marketers and advertisers propagandists. As far as I'm concerned, marketing and advertising are nothing but private-sector psyops.

I recommend "Jennifer Government". Still plenty of violence, but all in the name of PR. And a darn good read.

Re: A ‘Grass-Roots’ Campaign to Take Down Amazon Is Funded By Its Biggest Rivals

#75

Post by Porthos9K »

groby_b wrote: post #74
Porthos9K wrote: post #22

I'm surprised more cyberpunk authors didn't anticipate that wars between corporations wouldn't be fought using hackers or "street samurai", but with teams of propagandists competing to do a better job of bullshitting the general public. Yes, I'm calling marketers and advertisers propagandists. As far as I'm concerned, marketing and advertising are nothing but private-sector psyops.

I recommend "Jennifer Government". Still plenty of violence, but all in the name of PR. And a darn good read.

I've read that. But I don't think that's what many people think of when they think of cyberpunk. I was thinking more along the lines of works like Neuromancer and Snow Crash, and all of the writers who rode William Gibson's coattails (or parodied the genre as Neal Stephenson did). Not to mention cyberpunk RPGs like Shadowrun and Cyberpunk 2020.

Re: A ‘Grass-Roots’ Campaign to Take Down Amazon Is Funded By Its Biggest Rivals

#76

Post by ryandrake »

opportune wrote: post #15

It’s funny because the whole “Amazon ambassador” thing is just Amazon doing the same thing in reverse. What I hate most about the 21st century is how almost nothing feels genuine anymore. The news, any sort of campaign, even “science” in a lot of cases are just people using money to tell us what to think. Maybe it’s been like this for decades and we’re just now waking up to it, but regardless it just makes it all fee…

Yea it’s not new. Money converts freely and losslessly into speech, so it’s difficult to distinguish truth from a paid message. When you see a tweet or watch a YouTube video or read a comment on HN or hear a product endorsement from an acquaintance or hear a journalist tell you that something is “science“, how do you know it’s not paid for?

Re: A ‘Grass-Roots’ Campaign to Take Down Amazon Is Funded By Its Biggest Rivals

#77

Post by wongarsu »

guerrilla wrote: post #61
Porthos9K wrote: post #22

I'm surprised more cyberpunk authors didn't anticipate that wars between corporations wouldn't be fought using hackers or "street samurai", but with teams of propagandists competing to do a better job of bullshitting the general public. Yes, I'm calling marketers and advertisers propagandists. As far as I'm concerned, marketing and advertising are nothing but private-sector psyops.

How is that not what Nineteen Eighty Four is partly about?

1984 has newspeak, doublethink and a protagonist who's job is falsifying the newspaper archive. But everything is state owned, so it's "us vs the system" not the cyberpunk "Walmart vs Amazon" happening here.

Re: A ‘Grass-Roots’ Campaign to Take Down Amazon Is Funded By Its Biggest Rivals

#78

Post by groby_b »

Porthos9K wrote: post #75
groby_b wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recommend "Jennifer Government". Still plenty of violence, but all in the name of PR. And a darn good read.

I've read that. But I don't think that's what many people think of when they think of cyberpunk. I was thinking more along the lines of works like Neuromancer and Snow Crash , and all of the writers who rode William Gibson's coattails (or parodied the genre as Neal Stephenson did). Not to mention cyberpunk RPGs like Shadowrun and Cyberpunk 2020 .

Hm. Maybe it's taking the "punk" part to literal that prevents getting better stories. I mean, the point (as far as there is one) of punk is anti-corporatism, anti-fascism, combined with direct action.

That'll end up in street warfare one way or another. I'm honestly not sure how an actual punk story involving psy-ops would even look like. (Sure, the setup might be different, but sooner or later, heads are going to be knocked)

Re: A ‘Grass-Roots’ Campaign to Take Down Amazon Is Funded By Its Biggest Rivals

#79

Post by Porthos9K »

groby_b wrote: post #78
Porthos9K wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read that. But I don't think that's what many people think of when they think of cyberpunk. I was thinking more along the lines of works like Neuromancer and Snow Crash , and all of the writers who rode William Gibson's coattails (or parodied the genre as Neal Stephenson did). Not to mention cyberpunk RPGs like Shadowrun and Cyberpunk 2020 .

Hm. Maybe it's taking the "punk" part to literal that prevents getting better stories. I mean, the point (as far as there is one) of punk is anti-corporatism, anti-fascism, combined with direct action. That'll end up in street warfare one way or another. I'm honestly not sure how an actual punk story involving psy-ops would even look like. (Sure, the setup might be different, but sooner or later, heads are going to b…

I think that a "-punk" story with direct action and psy-ops would probably incorporate culture jamming. Are you familiar with the term?

https://www.thoughtco.com/culture-jamming-3026194

Re: A ‘Grass-Roots’ Campaign to Take Down Amazon Is Funded By Its Biggest Rivals

#80

Post by moosey »

opportune wrote: post #15

It’s funny because the whole “Amazon ambassador” thing is just Amazon doing the same thing in reverse. What I hate most about the 21st century is how almost nothing feels genuine anymore. The news, any sort of campaign, even “science” in a lot of cases are just people using money to tell us what to think. Maybe it’s been like this for decades and we’re just now waking up to it, but regardless it just makes it all fee…

Soon "tell us what to think" will be so subversive that most people might not have any way to combat it. Experiments have shown that leading questions can create memories where none previously existed, and how fragile and inaccurate our memories are. I don't know if that makes times interesting or terrifying.

It's come to the point where I seriously toy with handing off most of my decision making process to statistics. Mathematics has derived an algorithm for a lot of real world decision making that is superior to what the vast majority of humans can do, and I'm not sure which group I'm in: the ones that make really poor emotional decisions (although "luck" and emotions are tied together, according to more research I've read; luck might just be a way of thinking), or if I'm able to make well informed decisions based on data.

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