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How China Unleashed Twitter Trolls to Discredit Hong Kong’s Protesters

nytimes.com

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Re: How China Unleashed Twitter Trolls to Discredit Hong Kong’s Protesters

#71

Post by _iyig »

zhhkthrow wrote: post #69
_iyig wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This strikes me as an unfair characterization of those YouTubers. I’ve followed them for a while and have quite a different impression. Today’s video from Laowhy86 is a good short summation of his time in China, and how his perspective has shifted over time while living there and running a business, marrying a Chinese woman, starting a family, etc: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ed4ryYokLzU

No, I think it's a completely fair assessment. In fact, it probably doesn't even go far enough in terms of criticism. These two expats are notorious in the non-expat world for perpetuating unsubstantiated stereotypes and myths about China for the sake of views. They know there's an audience for it and they've adjusted their content accordingly. Somehow, they've managed to convince a vast number of people that they ar…

You’ve offered a very general critique. In contrast, the video I linked mentions many specific events and incidents which informed the speaker’s impression of China. Give that you’re making vague assertions on a throwaway account, and given that I’ve followed these YouTubers for years and corroborated the kinds of things they’ve said with friends who visit China or are Chinese, I’m not inclined to agree with you.

If you believe there are “higher-quality” China YouTubers with a different view, don’t just allude to them, please share links.

Re: How China Unleashed Twitter Trolls to Discredit Hong Kong’s Protesters

#72

Post by zhhkthrow »

dirtyid wrote: post #41
RobertRoberts wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I watched a few videos of a western man living in China (married to a Chinese woman). Their views on propaganda, information, privacy, leadership, marketing, power structures, etc... are all so vastly different from ours that it's almost unbelievable until you hear about it first hand. China's propaganda style is unabashedly similar to "Baghdad Bob". [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Saeed_al-Sahhaf

I hope this isn't an endorsement of serpentza or laowhy86, bitter expats with middle school mandarin proficiency flunking out of China are not insightful sources. There are millions of Chinese diaspora who lived in both Chinese and western cultures with much more useful things to say. Here are recent studies on how domestic and foreign Chinese propaganda works. How the Chinese Government Fabricates Social Media Posts…

It really disturbs me how these two constantly get touted as authoritative sources on China in western social media. I could not imagine a more misleading introduction into what daily life in China is like than the videos produced by these guys.

Re: How China Unleashed Twitter Trolls to Discredit Hong Kong’s Protesters

#73

Post by [deleted] »

machbio wrote: post #5

Am starting to feel this trolling is an industry (like troll farm) of its own - there are people or bots dedicated to trolling and reporting people who raise voice against the discrimination.. I recently had to report an unfair service by virgin atlantic staff after an emergency landing - I tweeted the pictures and video of the incident.. I was immediately trolled by twitter accounts about how i should be happy that…

[deleted]

Re: How China Unleashed Twitter Trolls to Discredit Hong Kong’s Protesters

#74

Post by dirtyid »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #59
dirtyid wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope this isn't an endorsement of serpentza or laowhy86, bitter expats with middle school mandarin proficiency flunking out of China are not insightful sources. There are millions of Chinese diaspora who lived in both Chinese and western cultures with much more useful things to say. Here are recent studies on how domestic and foreign Chinese propaganda works. How the Chinese Government Fabricates Social Media Posts…

I think it's useful to hear multiple sides to an argument, and to dismiss one side of an argument with ad hominem attacks, like you just did, only demonstrates how vital it is to hear various sides of a situation.

>I think it's useful to hear multiple sides to an argument

I don't disagree with this, but it's annoying how much casual western internet users will rely on glorified travel youtubers when there are many veteran China watchers with much more substantial things to say. I.e., Bill Bishop Sinocism (cost $$$) newsletter is widely regarded as one of the best English newsletter on Chinese developments. One would be hard pressed to find a weekly brief this extensive and well thought out for most countries, yet it's available for anyone curious about China. There are also tons of podcasts and articles by established western think tanks and subject matter experts (of various agendas) out there since China has become increasingly topical.

Without commenting on quality of these experts which vary greatly, because China is a big place and confusing, even to it's own technocrats, I find it a little unsettling how much these Youtubers inform discussions on Chinese culture to lay audiences. I know it's unreasonable to expect people to become experts, but these "sources" needs to be contextualized and called out for what they are: slice-of-life clickbait expat travel vlogs.

Re: How China Unleashed Twitter Trolls to Discredit Hong Kong’s Protesters

#75

Post by walshemj »

AFascistWorld wrote: post #38
machbio wrote: post #5

Am starting to feel this trolling is an industry (like troll farm) of its own - there are people or bots dedicated to trolling and reporting people who raise voice against the discrimination.. I recently had to report an unfair service by virgin atlantic staff after an emergency landing - I tweeted the pictures and video of the incident.. I was immediately trolled by twitter accounts about how i should be happy that…

You may not believe it, the vast majority of Chinese actually love the CCP and the system, they only just hate that a few corrupt low-level officials who are the bad apples fucking up leaders' glorious visions. These "bots" are mostly spontaneous people, they are not even government-sponsored Wumao, they genuinely love China and defend it, their reason being it may have some flaws but any other country has too and is…

That's pretty common in dictatorships, if you read Alex Kershaw's two volume Bio of Hitler he gives some examples.

The response to corruption by local Nazi party members, was along the line of "if only the Fuhrer knew"

Re: How China Unleashed Twitter Trolls to Discredit Hong Kong’s Protesters

#76

Post by dirtyid »

mistermann wrote: post #45
dirtyid wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope this isn't an endorsement of serpentza or laowhy86, bitter expats with middle school mandarin proficiency flunking out of China are not insightful sources. There are millions of Chinese diaspora who lived in both Chinese and western cultures with much more useful things to say. Here are recent studies on how domestic and foreign Chinese propaganda works. How the Chinese Government Fabricates Social Media Posts…

I really enjoy laowhy86's wife's channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzAxQ3vGD6Unk1GyxjJ9bmg The other guy's channels are in fact insightful, but hers is more interesting because she was born and raised there, but also has relatives in HK and an American husband. She is completely unemotionally attached to all the propaganda and nonsense so it's fun to hear her take on these things.

I will give these a view later, TY.

Re: How China Unleashed Twitter Trolls to Discredit Hong Kong’s Protesters

#77

Post by _iyig »

dirtyid wrote: post #74
RobertRoberts wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's useful to hear multiple sides to an argument, and to dismiss one side of an argument with ad hominem attacks, like you just did, only demonstrates how vital it is to hear various sides of a situation.

>I think it's useful to hear multiple sides to an argument I don't disagree with this, but it's annoying how much casual western internet users will rely on glorified travel youtubers when there are many veteran China watchers with much more substantial things to say. I.e., Bill Bishop Sinocism (cost $$$) newsletter is widely regarded as one of the best English newsletter on Chinese developments. One would be hard pr…

I wouldn’t trust Laowhy86’s commentary on China’s macroeconomic development. Nor would I trust Bill Bishop to tell me what it’s like to raise a young family in a third-tier city in China. Both voices have some utility.

Re: How China Unleashed Twitter Trolls to Discredit Hong Kong’s Protesters

#78

Post by bllguo »

SimbaOnSteroids wrote: post #65
bllguo wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what kind of "discourse" are you aiming for after you've labeled and dismissed everyone with a pro-China sentiment? a debate where the only participants have the same opinions seems like the least productive possible form of discussion.

Would you debate a Scientologist on the merits of Scientology?

...of course? Who else would you even be debating with? What is there to discuss between two people who hate scientology? Isn't the point of debate to entertain different views and/or to persuade others?

Re: How China Unleashed Twitter Trolls to Discredit Hong Kong’s Protesters

#79

Post by cylinder714 »

bernierocks wrote: post #48
llIIlIlIllIIlIl wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's incredibly funny to me how concerned western netizens seem to be about Chinese astroturfing... as if it's an actual problem they need to worry about. 99.9999% of comments you'll find online are highly critical of China. The most upvoted submissions on Reddit and HN are often those critical of China. Most Americans (60% last time I checked) already have a negative view of China and their knee-jerk reaction is to…

"Does anyone really think 17 bots on Twitter tweeting messages in Chinese is going to change this?" Try 17 thousand or 17 million bots, Tweeting in English. This is also only a small fraction of what they are actually doing. If you take a look at many new movies coming out in the US, many are financed by a Chinese company. They have also started buying major stakes in media companies, like Reddit. The strange thing a…

Try 17 thousand or 17 million bots, Tweeting in English

And now they've got Reddit covered with /r/Sino but I'm unsure if that's new or not.

Re: How China Unleashed Twitter Trolls to Discredit Hong Kong’s Protesters

#80

Post by dirtyid »

_iyig wrote: post #61
dirtyid wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope this isn't an endorsement of serpentza or laowhy86, bitter expats with middle school mandarin proficiency flunking out of China are not insightful sources. There are millions of Chinese diaspora who lived in both Chinese and western cultures with much more useful things to say. Here are recent studies on how domestic and foreign Chinese propaganda works. How the Chinese Government Fabricates Social Media Posts…

This strikes me as an unfair characterization of those YouTubers. I’ve followed them for a while and have quite a different impression. Today’s video from Laowhy86 is a good short summation of his time in China, and how his perspective has shifted over time while living there and running a business, marrying a Chinese woman, starting a family, etc: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ed4ryYokLzU

I found Laowhy86 slightly more genuine. I have not viewed their videos in a while, maybe I got an unfair representation seeing their content at the height of clickbait YouTube titles and expats flunking out of China. Regardless, per my comment below, these are youtubers who optimize(d?) content that often distorts reality (as another user describes) and should not form the basis of understanding and discussions on China. But for many lay users, they are. The Chinese perspective from an expat lens will be vastly different from the Chinese perspective from a Chinese lens etc. I'll go through his summation video after work, someone else linked to his wife's channel. I'll be upfront and say regardless of how my opinion changes of them as people, I still don't believe they should be dominant sources for informing views China. There aren't any dominant sources just like 2 vlogs shouldn't form your opinion on US.
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