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What does it mean for American innovation to be backed by oil wealth?

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Re: What does it mean for American innovation to be backed by oil wealth?

#71

Post by tossAfterUsing »

wayoutthere wrote: post #48
golergka wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that just means that a rational investor would make a killing amid this chaos, wouldn't he? So, we have to assume that for the last decade, not a single VC in the industry have been rational enough to pick up easy money everybody else is overlooking?

There has been too much easy money flying around the VC world for the last 30 years that people have literally forgotten how to operate any other way. People have lived entire careers in this environment, so the rational move for them is the current status quo. But the paradigm is shifting. Where will we end up? My money is on early 20th century style oligarchic capitalism, but that’s not a very appealing proposition…

> My money is on early 20th century style oligarchic capitalism

I've been enjoying the historical context in this book. I'm not surprised to be liking the book, but i'm pleased to be getting a better understanding of what the early 20th century space was like.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36448501-the-bitcoin-sta...

Re: What does it mean for American innovation to be backed by oil wealth?

#72

Post by tossAfterUsing »

GuardianCaveman wrote: post #17
mc32 wrote: post #5

Saudi wealth is seeking to diversify, so its using its patrimony to seek alternative income streams to oil. So good for Saudis. This fund is seeking opportunity in many places, among them SV. That’s also a good thing, for the most part. In short, I don’t see it being so negative that it comes from oil. It’s funneling research away from oil

For me it’s not the oil that’s the problem. It’s the wahabi sect of Saudi, the weekly public execution of bloggers and dissenters. The international kidnapping and torture of journalists, the constant bombing of schools and children in Yemen. It’s THAT money. I worked there on a foreign military sale contract and I saw a lot that disgusted me. The male Filipino workers told me they grow facial hair to make themselves…

> Imagine if the westboro Baptists accidentally struck oil and became billionaires and tried to export that version of Christianity

Lemme tell a story bout a man named Fred...

Re: What does it mean for American innovation to be backed by oil wealth?

#74

Post by Apocryphon »

wolco wrote: post #27
save_ferris wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t see it as a negative that SV has received billions in investment money from a Saudi prince who had a journalist brutally dismembered in the Saudi embassy in Istanbul?

It becomes positive when the wealth is transferred and lost. If wealth is increases this isn't a good outcome.

Investments aren't simple wealth transfers.

Re: What does it mean for American innovation to be backed by oil wealth?

#75

Post by AndrewKemendo »

Ididntdothis wrote: post #8
m_ke wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately most of the companies in this generation of "unicorns" are being pumped and dumped by VCs. This idea that you can buy your way to a monopoly, get large market share like Amazon and Google,then figure out how to profit from your position in the market will backfire spectacularly and public investors will have to pay for it.

“This idea that you can buy your way to a monopoly, get large market share like Amazon and Google,then figure out how to profit from your position in the market” This idea doesn’t seem to go away. In the 90s it was the same. Whoever would sell dog food on the internet first would own the market and keep it forever. Reality turned out differently.

The scale is what changes. In the 90s it was a single website for a single product line. That model got disrupted by the "platforms" which dominate. It's unclear what is going to disrupt platforms.

Re: What does it mean for American innovation to be backed by oil wealth?

#76

Post by NullPrefix »

hedvig wrote: post #70
ryanmarsh wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't know they were that cheap. A new refinery starts at about $5B.

Why the moaning about nuclear power plant cost if refineries sit at a similar cost?

Refineries return that money faster.

Re: What does it mean for American innovation to be backed by oil wealth?

#77

Post by wayoutthere »

tossAfterUsing wrote: post #71
wayoutthere wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There has been too much easy money flying around the VC world for the last 30 years that people have literally forgotten how to operate any other way. People have lived entire careers in this environment, so the rational move for them is the current status quo. But the paradigm is shifting. Where will we end up? My money is on early 20th century style oligarchic capitalism, but that’s not a very appealing proposition…

> My money is on early 20th century style oligarchic capitalism I've been enjoying the historical context in this book. I'm not surprised to be liking the book, but i'm pleased to be getting a better understanding of what the early 20th century space was like. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36448501-the-bitcoin-sta...

I wholeheartedly disagree with any decentralized approach to national economics. Not because it wouldn’t work, but because it would. Money is power only because power likes it that way. But power is power, and a decentralized monetary supply does not serve the powerful. They will attack it with every weapon they have (which is basically all of them) to ensure it doesn’t happen until they control it.

In the early 20th century, the rich owned gold mines. Once we moved off the gold standard, they simply took that wealth and put it into the fiat system by owning companies. Even if we do end up on a nominally crypto-backed monetary system, I would expect any governance (even decentralized) to favor the incumbent wealthy as much if not more than our existing system.

Re: What does it mean for American innovation to be backed by oil wealth?

#78

Post by NullPrefix »

tossAfterUsing wrote: post #72
GuardianCaveman wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me it’s not the oil that’s the problem. It’s the wahabi sect of Saudi, the weekly public execution of bloggers and dissenters. The international kidnapping and torture of journalists, the constant bombing of schools and children in Yemen. It’s THAT money. I worked there on a foreign military sale contract and I saw a lot that disgusted me. The male Filipino workers told me they grow facial hair to make themselves…

> Imagine if the westboro Baptists accidentally struck oil and became billionaires and tried to export that version of Christianity Lemme tell a story bout a man named Fred...

Your story is quite short.

Re: What does it mean for American innovation to be backed by oil wealth?

#79

Post by shay_ker »

A lot of FUD, but no evidence that Saudi investors are using their influence to make tech companies do bad things.

If you follow the money, you'll likely find a questionable source. Americans benefit from US military raining drone strikes in other countries. By being an American citizen, are you tacitly approving drone strikes? No. By paying taxes that fund drone strikes, are you tacitly approving drone strikes? No. Taking Saudi investment is not tacit approval of their atrocities.

There's certainly a higher level of geopolitical tension there, though. I don't really know what the US could to answer (make more money?), but I don't think the tech companies themselves can do much about this, they're mostly pawns in a larger game of chess.

If the US wants to regulate these investments, then by all means. Lobby for that if you're really worried.

Re: What does it mean for American innovation to be backed by oil wealth?

#80

Post by jbottoms »

Innovation in America is essentially dead. First VC's don't know a good product when they see one, and they won't do due diligence on new products. So, they look to the tech companies that control the markets. Second, the services the tech giants are providing result in "soft GDP" dollars. We need VC's to be more community aware, and stop chasing cotton candy. WeWork is a rent seeker that has inserted another layer into the rental arbitrage process. That does not help the U.S. economy.
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