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E-books at local libraries: a fight between publishers and librarians

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Re: E-books at local libraries: a fight between publishers and librarians

#71
I feel it's only natural for this sort of thing to happen, as ultimately the purpose of libraries and the purpose of copyright are in direct opposition to one another.

In my view, the primary reason public libraries were created was to provide the public with free access to informational and culturally-relevant media (books, newspapers, movies, audio, etc). Previously, a library's effectiveness in fulfilling that mission was naturally limited by the need for the library to acquire physical copies of every article of media they provided access to, and by the natural geographical restrictions imposed by the need for members to physically travel to the library to view, check out, and return those articles. These limitations made it relatively easy for libraries to coexist with copyright law, as libraries would never be able to compete with the convenience of personal ownership of a physical copy of media.

With modern, digital media, such physical limitations are no longer present. Were it not for copyright law preventing digital media from being acquired and loaned out the same way that physical media are, it would be rather easy to build a public library system which would fulfill its mission so efficiently and with such convenience that it would supplant the need for personal ownership of media for the vast majority of people.

Imagine a national library purchasing 100 copies of a movie, then instantly "checking it out" to you when you stream it to your phone, and "checking it in" as soon as the movie finishes playing or you pause it for more than a minute or two. Such a system could be many orders of magnitude cheaper than our current public library system, while at the same time being far more convenient. They could put Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu, and Disney+ out of business overnight. Now apply the same system to books, music, magazines, etc. Why would any significant number of people bother buying any of those forms media ever again?

Re: E-books at local libraries: a fight between publishers and librarians

#73
post #20

I didn't know libraries lent ebooks. Seems kind of strange.

Libraries offer movies, video games, some even have a "library of things". A library near me offers go-pros, knitting needles, telescopes, a whole bunch of odd things.

Re: E-books at local libraries: a fight between publishers and librarians

#74
post #71

I feel it's only natural for this sort of thing to happen, as ultimately the purpose of libraries and the purpose of copyright are in direct opposition to one another. In my view, the primary reason public libraries were created was to provide the public with free access to informational and culturally-relevant media (books, newspapers, movies, audio, etc). Previously, a library's effectiveness in fulfilling that mis…

>>Were it not for copyright law preventing digital media from being acquired and loaned out the same way that physical media are, it would be rather easy to build a public library system which would fulfill its mission so efficiently and with such convenience that it would supplant the need for personal ownership of media for the vast majority of people.

You've just inspired me. How do we make libraries the next "great disruptor"?

>>They could put Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu, and Disney+ out of business overnight.

All of those services are also primary-content creators. They no longer just serve as repositories for content, they also produce unique content that adds value.

Re: E-books at local libraries: a fight between publishers and librarians

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I often re-read or consult books (or chapters) I've read on a whim. If I had to e.g. take my library on vacations to do the same thing I can trivially do on a Kindle I'd need to travel with a minivan full of books. Isn't that a FOMO argument, though ? As a consumer the advantage of e-books are: ease of organization and ease of buying, no page flipping sounds in bed, ease of transportation. But what I really want ?…

> A real, thick book, with something like 200-400 sheets made up of magical e-ink so I can have a physical map of the book I am reading. The value provided by a physical map of a book is knowing how far along you are in the book, yet that's also available in a visual form in an ebook as well. You can even riffle through pages on most e-readers as well, seeing a preview of the page as you move quickly forward or backw…

> The value provided by a physical map of a book is knowing how far along you are in the book

No, it provides more.

Actually your brain maps physical properties of the book to actual content, creating an overlay map over the story or the content (and our brain is really good at mentally mapping things). This is that map that is being used to know where in the book a particular piece of information is.

Reading on e-reader is more linear than reading a paper book. See: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/reading-paper-scr... https://insights.uksg.org/articles/10.1629/uksg.236/ and https://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/aug/19/readers-absorb...

Besides, no e-reader today can let your riffle through pages as fast as paper book.

When you are in a novel, or in a manual, you have some kinetic and touch feedback to build memories of where's what. The book becomes an extension (à la proprioception) with much less friction than an e-read for which you have to wait for visual feedback (screen refreshing).

With paper books things are at the tip of your fingers.

E-reader have more friction.

That's a reason why I only read novels on e-reader and jot notes in a notepad for non-fiction books.

If I had the budget I'd only have physical books.

Re: E-books at local libraries: a fight between publishers and librarians

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I often re-read or consult books (or chapters) I've read on a whim. If I had to e.g. take my library on vacations to do the same thing I can trivially do on a Kindle I'd need to travel with a minivan full of books. Isn't that a FOMO argument, though ? As a consumer the advantage of e-books are: ease of organization and ease of buying, no page flipping sounds in bed, ease of transportation. But what I really want ?…

A multi-page e-ink book would be nice. I love my Kindle for certain types of reading, but when I read, I like to flip back to previous sections. Search doesn't work because I rarely know verbatim what I'm looking for or the search terms are flooded with answers from the entire book, when I really want it narrowed down to a particular area. With physical books, I just remember roughly how far into the book it was and…

Can you use the table of contents on your kindle? It's not the same, of course, and some books don't have a usable chapter system (too many or too few), but if you've got an idea of where you want to go, it should get you close.

Re: E-books at local libraries: a fight between publishers and librarians

#77
post #74
post #71

I feel it's only natural for this sort of thing to happen, as ultimately the purpose of libraries and the purpose of copyright are in direct opposition to one another. In my view, the primary reason public libraries were created was to provide the public with free access to informational and culturally-relevant media (books, newspapers, movies, audio, etc). Previously, a library's effectiveness in fulfilling that mis…

>>Were it not for copyright law preventing digital media from being acquired and loaned out the same way that physical media are, it would be rather easy to build a public library system which would fulfill its mission so efficiently and with such convenience that it would supplant the need for personal ownership of media for the vast majority of people. You've just inspired me. How do we make libraries the next "gre…

>> They could put Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu, and Disney+ out of business overnight.

> All of those services are also primary-content creators.

Right, so they would remain in business only by distributing exclusive content that's not available in public libraries by virtue of the fact that copies of those media can never be purchased, only streamed directly from their original creator.

Thinking about where that would lead in a world where that business model suddenly becomes extremely profitable compared to selling copies of your movie... it almost seems kinda dystopian.

Re: E-books at local libraries: a fight between publishers and librarians

#78
post #50
post #8

> There’s a tension in e-book pricing generally between consumer expectations that a digital file will be less expensive than a physical copy and the reality that very little of the cost of making a book is tied up in the physical format There's more to this than the cost of making a book. As a consumer, a physical thing inherently has more value than a digital one because it keeps the value after I buy it. I can len…

Honestly, the opposite is true for me. Ebooks download immediately and take up zero space, you can carry them all with you in one device. Way better than physical books as far as I'm concerned. Also, in terms of the sheer entertainment to cost ratio books are incredibly good value at current pricing.

I think the divide here's largely along the lines of what people read. E-readers are king for light fiction or airport nonfic, for instance, but pretty awful for heavy nonfiction reading (think: textbooks), with everything else falling somewhere in between—poetry: somewhat bad on ereaders but maybe tolerable, depending on what it is; good, older literature, depends on how much you want/need footnotes or to refer to other parts of the book, and how inclined you are to annotate; books of any kind used for actual research, you probably want several open at once and a bunch more with tons of bookmarks in them that you can have open to a certain spot (you remember which one with spatial memory and maybe bookmark color) in a few seconds, which gets dicey with e-readers, even if you have more than one; and so on.

Tablets are better in some ways than e-readers but much worse in others. There's no killer does-everything-pretty-well e-reader solution yet. They rock for casual, lighter reading, though, which is probably a fairly high percentage of all book reading that happens.

Re: E-books at local libraries: a fight between publishers and librarians

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Physical books last at least ~50 years. That is longer than any physical computer lasts and longer than any of the companies that offer cloud services (IBM doesn't offer e-Books yet) have existed. There is a good chance that some of them will go bankrupt over this time.

which is why you should get your e-books as drm-free local files

And store those files where? Do you own any working digital media from 1969? I know my carefully curated collection of 5.25" floppy discs are all corrupt and unreadable today.

Re: E-books at local libraries: a fight between publishers and librarians

#80
post #15

Seems like libraries should team up and combine their purchasing powers to get more equitable purchase agreements.

They should team up and use the existing copyright laws in a way that is more suited to their mission.

Which is to say they should create their own shared digital-lending infrastructure that does not depend on publishers supplying the e-books.

That would provide a significant incentive for publishers to be reasonable enough that public libraries don't cut them out of the loop entirely using the first-sale doctrine, with books purchased at retail.

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