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Purdue Pharma files for bankruptcy with $10B plan to settle claims

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Re: Purdue Pharma files for bankruptcy with $10B plan to settle claims

#71
post #57
post #31

Seems like an abuse of the limited liability. Does the US have a way to set that aside? I know other countries do

The US indeed has this concept, known as "piercing the corporate veil". Excess payments to ownership (especially if you think the company is about to face a huge liability) is a classic example of one of the justifications for a judge to do just that: make the owners personally liable rather than just the company.

The smart way is to pay yourself 10% dividends every year into your own holding companies from the start. Sounds like that’s what they did.

Don’t store your gold next to a nuclear reactor and all.

Re: Purdue Pharma files for bankruptcy with $10B plan to settle claims

#72

Are the other manufacturers of oxycontin being sued too? I know that Purdue tried to underplay their role, but from the best #s I've seen they've only sold 20% of the market. https://www.statnews.com/2019/09/09/purdue-pharma-data-downp...

> In March, Purdue settled claims brought by the state of Oklahoma for $270 million, and another defendant, Teva Pharmaceutical Industries Ltd., also reached a, $85 million deal to avoid trial. J&J, which refused to settle, was ordered to pay $572 million for creating a public nuisance in the state with its over-promotion of its opioid pain medicines.

Re: Purdue Pharma files for bankruptcy with $10B plan to settle claims

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we do it for everyone?

You mean everyone convicted of criminal misconduct? Or everyone everyone? Feel the latter would do more harm than good. The opportunity to become wealthy it a tremendous motivator.

Can poor people get in on this? Being sentenced to a middle class life could be ok.

Re: Purdue Pharma files for bankruptcy with $10B plan to settle claims

#75

Great now all the opioid production and prescriptions and thus addiction will stop! Oh wait...

Most opiod deaths are from fentanyl. Most fentanyl comes from China, not perscription medication.

How many of those people started on prescription opiates?

Re: Purdue Pharma files for bankruptcy with $10B plan to settle claims

#76

Great now all the opioid production and prescriptions and thus addiction will stop! Oh wait...

Most opiod deaths are from fentanyl. Most fentanyl comes from China, not perscription medication.

75% of opioid/opiate addicts started with pills.

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24871348

Re: Purdue Pharma files for bankruptcy with $10B plan to settle claims

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we do it for everyone?

You mean everyone convicted of criminal misconduct? Or everyone everyone? Feel the latter would do more harm than good. The opportunity to become wealthy it a tremendous motivator.

Yes, it is such a great motivator people will literally kill, die, and destroy the planet for it.

Re: Purdue Pharma files for bankruptcy with $10B plan to settle claims

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most opiod deaths are from fentanyl. Most fentanyl comes from China, not perscription medication.

How many of those people started on prescription opiates?

Tl;dr: About 80% of heroin users started on prescription opioids. This sounds bad, but actually the conversion rate from opioid on-label use to abuse is pretty low and the conversion from pill abuse to heroin is even lower.

* Rate of conversion from on-label opioid prescription to addiction ("opioid use disorder") is lowish; this metastudy[1] claims 8-12% on average, but the 95% CI is anywhere from 3-17% and I'm not sure what they're measuring the percentage of (i.e., long-term prescriptions might both be more represented in the data and have higher conversion rates) — I doubt 8-12% of people who get 3 days of vicodin for their wisdom teeth extraction develop an opiate use disorder. They also point out that some studies showed misuse rates below 1% and "significant variability remains in this literature." We should expect these rates to fall as tighter prescription quantities from the last several years impact "leftover" pill rates.

* The rate of conversion from prescription opioid addiction to heroin is low; 4-6% per the government.[2]

* Overall opioid-involved overdose annual deaths in the US rose from 8000 in 1999 to 47600 in 2017; of those, the prescription-involved number rose by 13600 deaths (+300%), from 3400. Conversely, the non-prescription-involved deaths rose from by 26000 deaths (+465%), from 4600.[3](Figs 3-4) 26000/39600 = ~66%. (The population has also grown about 17% over that period, but that doesn't change the calculus too much.)

* Therefore: the overall growth pattern in opioid deaths in the last two decades is largely accounted for by heroin and other non-Rx use, which are a tiny population with a very high (and rising) death rate. The rising death rate is mostly due to the surge in black market sale of fentanyl as "heroin."[3] (esp. figures 4-5 and associated text) (Perhaps as a result of DEA and other restriction on the supply of the relatively safer, but less dense, heroin, and restriction on supply of the vastly safer prescription opioids.)

* Notably, the number of non-fentanyl-involved prescription opioid-involved deaths has actually been in decline since 2011![3] (fig. 4.), despite a rising population. Let me echo that since it's really important: prescription opioid-involved overdose, ex fentanyl, both in number and per capita rate, HAS BEEN IN DECLINE SINCE 2011! Why doesn't any news story on opioids in the US headline with that? The primary reason the overall prescription opiate-involved death rate hasn't tracked that decline is rising co-(ab)use with illicit fentanyl, and its relatively higher death rate.

If we could wave a magic wand and wipe (illicit) fentanyl off the earth, our annual opioid death rate would fall by something like half.

[1]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25785523

[2]: https://www.drugabuse.gov/drugs-abuse/opioids/opioid-overdos...

[3]: https://www.drugabuse.gov/related-topics/trends-statistics/o...

Re: Purdue Pharma files for bankruptcy with $10B plan to settle claims

#79

Are the other manufacturers of oxycontin being sued too? I know that Purdue tried to underplay their role, but from the best #s I've seen they've only sold 20% of the market. https://www.statnews.com/2019/09/09/purdue-pharma-data-downp...

That's 20% of the whole opioid pill market, not just oxycontin. As far as I know, generic manufacturers of off-patent drugs usually aren't sued. On the one side, they don't actively promote/market their products to prescribers or patients, but I'd still think they share some blame by manufacturing it.

Are you of the opinion that opioids have no legitimate medical use? How else could suing generic manufacturers be justified? The issue with Purdue is that they lied about the risks of the drug. Presumably, they lied to the generic manufacturers as well.

Re: Purdue Pharma files for bankruptcy with $10B plan to settle claims

#80
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Purdue never prescribed opioids to anyone. They only sold them to hospitals and doctors, after the FDA let them do it. Not sure what message punishing them is supposed to send? But I get it. Someone dies and it’s the drug dealers fault, and punishing them will make everyone feel better. Except it doesn’t do anything about the actual problem (opioid addiction). It feels to me like the elation here is because the Sackl…

Please remember that Purdue were the ones who marketed Oxycontin on the premise of one dose for 12-hour pain relief. When they learned doctors were prescribing it for eight hours, they tried to "re-train" them to use the "proper" (read: their ) dosing recommendation, because there were cheaper drugs with six of eight hour doses. Sure, the doctors made the prescriptions, but you, and I, and everyone who thinks honestl…

> that recommendation in the first place was an act of bad faith.

This seems a bit of a stretch to me.

The doctors prescribed it, even given readily available research, the FDA approved it, knowing full well this was a risk. Those are the guilty parties here. Purdue filled their role just fine, they just happened to be making an opiate and so they're getting chased for it now because China is dumping fentanyl. Pretty ridiculous really.

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