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DevOps didn’t exist when I started as a developer

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Re: DevOps didn’t exist when I started as a developer

#71

Post by LargeWu »

JBerlinsky wrote: post #11
zwkrt wrote: post #7

Sidebar: does anyone else get the feeling that infrastructure as code is just cloud vendor lock-in by another name? Especially since the output of the code ends up being wild unstructured JSON/YAML files with no spec or discernible schema. My favorite is how in the Microsoft toolchain you can build a CI pipeline in a visual UI on the right that automatically updates the YAML file on the left. “We know you don’t want…

You might want to look into Terraform [1], which works across multiple cloud vendors, with pluggable open-source "providers" facilitating the communication with the backend cloud platform. [1]: https://www.terraform.io/

You still need to have pretty intimate knowledge of your stack provider though. Terraform is a way to formally express your infrastructure via code, but you still need to know how all of your components need to be configured and wired together. It doesn't give you any of that.

Re: DevOps didn’t exist when I started as a developer

#73

Post by headmelted »

SamuelAdams wrote: post #15

Personally I think DevOps is like religion. It means whatever someone wants it to mean. Some companies think DevOps means having an automated pipeline for building, testing, and shipping code. Other companies think it means micro-services. Others think it means making developers do DBA / SysAdmin work. All of these things are fine for companies to do. How you run your org is on you. But I wish companies would go deep…

> Personally I think DevOps is like religion

As long as no-one is knocking on my door asking if I have five minutes to discuss Agile development methodologies.

I could reasonably defend most of what people attach to the "DevOps" buzzword as sane practices most of us were already doing before the hoopla.

Agile (with a capital A) is the absolute worst thing that has ever happened to the software industry. Kill off that cult and you can DevOps my work with containerized OWASP Gitflows until the end of days for all I care.

Snark aside, Dave Thomas makes a compelling argument for trying to choose terms that are as hard as possible for others to co-opt for selling snake oil (anecdotally, I encounter people on a weekly basis who are self-described Agile or DevOps experts, but have no technical background whatsoever).

Re: DevOps didn’t exist when I started as a developer

#74

Post by 0x8BADF00D »

Aloha wrote: post #63
viklove wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly the reason. Software engineering is about writing code, devops is about writing yaml files and keying into functionality that was implemented by software engineers.

Where does code begin and end - I do work that could be described as devops, and I'm often writing python or bash to do something work related - according GP (and by extension, you.), I'm just a blue collar grunt

Yup, I also do work that can be described as DevOps. I have strict code reviews, have to write design documents, and develop code in Python, Bash, and C for the embedded platforms I deploy to. I'm happy to be called blue collar grunt or whatever, the pay is amazing and I have way more visibility than I ever did as an SWE.

Re: DevOps didn’t exist when I started as a developer

#75

Post by trollied »

YawningAngel wrote: post #67
trollied wrote: post #28

All that’s really happened is that developers have learned or taken on the responsibility to build and deploy to production, and also be knowledgeable and responsible for the development stack, hence “full stack developer”. Unfortunately, it’s incredibly dangerous if everyone involved doesn’t know what they’re doing. Then kubernites and docker turn up. To make things easy? No. They’re making the infrastructure more d…

If you want a database that is arbitrarily horizontally scalable, there aren't really good open source options. As a former employee it isn't clear to me that Monzo couldn't have used boring stuff for a while and switched to C* or some equivalent later when it was genuinely needed, but it's worked well enough for them that I'm not inclined to critique the decision post hoc.

Their last outage worries me greatly.

Re: DevOps didn’t exist when I started as a developer

#76

Post by procinct »

headmelted wrote: post #73
SamuelAdams wrote: post #15

Personally I think DevOps is like religion. It means whatever someone wants it to mean. Some companies think DevOps means having an automated pipeline for building, testing, and shipping code. Other companies think it means micro-services. Others think it means making developers do DBA / SysAdmin work. All of these things are fine for companies to do. How you run your org is on you. But I wish companies would go deep…

> Personally I think DevOps is like religion As long as no-one is knocking on my door asking if I have five minutes to discuss Agile development methodologies. I could reasonably defend most of what people attach to the "DevOps" buzzword as sane practices most of us were already doing before the hoopla. Agile (with a capital A) is the absolute worst thing that has ever happened to the software industry. Kill off that…

What’s your preferred methodology to Agile? Waterfall?

Re: DevOps didn’t exist when I started as a developer

#78

Post by fuzz4lyfe »

arendtio wrote: post #34
SamuelAdams wrote: post #15

Personally I think DevOps is like religion. It means whatever someone wants it to mean. Some companies think DevOps means having an automated pipeline for building, testing, and shipping code. Other companies think it means micro-services. Others think it means making developers do DBA / SysAdmin work. All of these things are fine for companies to do. How you run your org is on you. But I wish companies would go deep…

> But I wish companies would go deeper than "DevOps" when putting up job posting requirements. I am not sure this problem is limited to DevOps. Once I applied for a job thinking I understood the job description. During the interview, I had to find out that they put only half the job in the description (the good parts). Afterward, I took a look on the job description again asking myself if I misinterpreted the descrip…

Firms don't want you to know it, but they are struggling to hire competent IT professionals to an extreme degree. Recruiters are being regularly ghosted (like they used to do to candidates) and turn over is increasing. That's why you see them resulting to tricks like this. One thing to keep in mind is that most managers working today cut their teeth when unemployment was at 10% or so, as such they really only know about bait and switch tactics and the stick. Carrots aren't something that really fits into their mental model.

In short, to anyone reading this. Now is the time to make your move.

Re: DevOps didn’t exist when I started as a developer

#79

Post by headmelted »

procinct wrote: post #76
headmelted wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Personally I think DevOps is like religion As long as no-one is knocking on my door asking if I have five minutes to discuss Agile development methodologies. I could reasonably defend most of what people attach to the "DevOps" buzzword as sane practices most of us were already doing before the hoopla. Agile (with a capital A) is the absolute worst thing that has ever happened to the software industry. Kill off that…

What’s your preferred methodology to Agile? Waterfall?

I quite like this as a good resource:

https://agilemanifesto.org/.

Whatever gets the work done and doesn't cause unnecessary burdens while adding no measurable value is good with me at this point.

I'd make do with anything but Agile, which needs to be shot. Out of a cannon. Into the Sun.

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