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The Rise of the Electric Scooter

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Re: The Rise of the Electric Scooter

#71

Post by s_y_n_t_a_x »

DuskStar wrote: post #37
s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just about choice, it's a safety issue. https://www.consumerreports.org/product-safety/deaths-tied-t... > Earlier this year, a CR investigation—which tabulated injuries from 110 hospitals in 47 U.S. cities—found that at least 1,500 riders had been injured since e-scooters were introduced in late 2017, and there were four fatalities. Since then, CR has identified an additional four deaths.

Okay, and? Raw death numbers, without corresponding usage numbers, are kind of useless. More people die as pedestrians, or in cars, than on scooters after all. Deaths/mile or deaths/hour would both allow some sort of real comparison.

These deaths are on top of the already occurring deaths, these would not have happened if the person was walking instead.

> a 5-year-old boy riding with his mother died when he fell off a scooter and was hit by a vehicle.

Re: The Rise of the Electric Scooter

#72

Post by JoshTriplett »

AstralStorm wrote: post #5
Slimbo wrote: post #4

Isn't the best solution for "last mile" for all of us is to walk it?

Or bike it. Also healthy and infrastructure and laws are there. People with disabilities cannot use these scooters anyway, they need something different.

> People with disabilities cannot use these scooters anyway

You are making broad assumptions about what people with disabilities need or want. Disabled does not always mean "wheelchair", and not every disability is visible to you, nor does it need to be.

Some disabilities, or other medical conditions, make walking a few blocks (let alone miles) prohibitive. Some disabilities mean taking the elevator rather than the stairs. Some disabilities make a bicycle unusable.

Re: The Rise of the Electric Scooter

#73

Post by beatgammit »

AstralStorm wrote: post #25
TulliusCicero wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People with disabilities can't use stairs, should we stop building those too? It's okay to support a mode that only most of the population can use. There are still other modes, just like with stairs and elevators/ramps.

That's explicitly not what I meant. I meant that disabled people cannot use either. The scooters solve no problems bicycles already do not, not exactly even portability yet. They create problems of litter on sidewalks, trash generation due to damage (where rental bikes are typically fixable if damaged) and issues of safety as they're much less visible and people tend to not use the bell...

If scooters create problems because they're left out, fine the scooter companies for littering. That will cut into their profits, so they'll either innovate ways to make them less of a nuisance or stop doing business. Banning them makes little sense. Cities can help by increasing availability of bike racks, and scooter companies can help by providing locks on those racks to customers.

Re: The Rise of the Electric Scooter

#75

Post by kennywinker »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #43

As a suburban dweller who doesn't go into the city much, it's still surreal to hear so many stories about the electric scooter craze, to know its happening thirty or forty miles away... And I've literally never seen it. I do feel its a good companion to public transit in theory, though it still lacks everything I want from you know, just having a car: Somewhere to put stuff. I never commute light enough to live off a…

It's possible you'd have to change some of your patterns to ever make something other than a car work. E.g. leave some of your stuff at your workplace, grocery shop more often with smaller loads. Etc. Bicycles can also carry quite a bit with a nice box on the back, and electric pedal assist cargo bikes can carry even more.

Re: The Rise of the Electric Scooter

#76

Post by beatgammit »

Notorious_BLT wrote: post #45
AstralStorm wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By park you actually mean litter everywhere, as there are very few designated parking places, much fewer than for bicycles.

That's a city planning problem, though. Designated small-vehicle parking that isn't explicitly for bikes seems like a good idea to have. No reason bike storage should be bike-exclusive

The scooter companies are free to fund installation.

Honestly, I think scooter companies should be fined for any scooters left in a place that causes problems. It's essentially litter, so it should be treated as such. Scooter companies should be providing some means of locking them up securely and expect their users to use them.

Re: The Rise of the Electric Scooter

#77

Post by kragen »

s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #71
DuskStar wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, and? Raw death numbers, without corresponding usage numbers, are kind of useless. More people die as pedestrians, or in cars, than on scooters after all. Deaths/mile or deaths/hour would both allow some sort of real comparison.

These deaths are on top of the already occurring deaths, these would not have happened if the person was walking instead. > a 5-year-old boy riding with his mother died when he fell off a scooter and was hit by a vehicle.

Why do you think that? The evidence you described does not support this conclusion; do you have access to some other private evidence you aren't sharing?

Re: The Rise of the Electric Scooter

#78

Post by beatgammit »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #19
segmondy wrote: post #7

Lots of places are not even bicycle safe and walkable. So I don't even see how Electric scooter will work in those locations. I notice it's adopted in places where people can walk and bike.

It's become somewhat popular in the US, despite the US having no cities with good bike infrastructure. Convenience is a hell of a drug. The way I see it, this increased uptake could help drive greater investment in bike lanes and walkability. Politically, it's always easier to spend money on things people already do than on things they might do if you spent enough.

Ideally, we'd have carless urban centers, with only buses, light rail, and small vehicles (bikes and scooters) allowed in a certain radius. This would allow greater density in the downtown area, eliminate most pollution, and promote general health, yet for some reason, nobody seems to propose it. It could even be coupled with free mass transportation in that region, since costs for running such a service would likely decrease (could probably even have it driverless since there aren't as many hazards).

The toughest nut to crack would be replacing trucks, which could probably be handled with either light rail handling goods or truck-only roads completely segregated from the rest of the roads (say, tunnel or overpass).

Re: The Rise of the Electric Scooter

#79

Post by eldenbishop »

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #59
shafyy wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been biking for 2 years in SF and disagree that it's impractical for short trips. Why do you think that?

You have the deal with the bike afterwords. Go for brunch in the mission and your friends are going back to the outer sunset with a scooter just fold it up and put it in the car with a bike either hope it's there when you get back, bike all the way, or go home then head over alone.

This exactly: bikes require planning and strategy and are not good for improvisational day-to-day things like you described. Bikes make walking easier but all other forms of travel like bus, train or taxi/uber/cars more difficult or impossible.

Re: The Rise of the Electric Scooter

#80

Post by Zenst »

Here in the UK they are illegal (unless used on private land), which is sad as whilst they are illegal as technically a motor vehicle, needing some form of test, insurance, mot.... That has not happened and in limbo as clearly a need for some standards control etc, but an unwillingness to address that and more so a periodic fashion stopping of people upon such vehicles in an apathetic way that causes many to get one, go months, even years without knowing they are breach of the law and driven past many police/traffic wardens, then suddenly one day they stop you and caution you saying you can't. They then go back to ignoring it as a low-priority issue and the limbo of not legal as no formal way to allow one, yet readily sold and accessible.

So for the UK, such rise is randomly curtailed and no progress upon legal avenues to use them as you would intend beyond private land - which many do not own in London, an area in which such modes of transport are most suited.

[EDIT ADD] A better read upon what I said :- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48106617

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