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How Apple's Apps Topped Rivals in the App Store It Controls

nytimes.com

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Re: How Apple's Apps Topped Rivals in the App Store It Controls

#71

Post by ferdbold »

frogpelt wrote: post #24
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #14

I'm not saying this isn't a problem, but it seems pretty minor compared to the fact that: 1) Apple's apps come preinstalled on every iPhone. 2) Apple's apps have permission to do things that 3rd party apps cannot. If I search for "Web Browser" on the App Store... well, technically I'll get results from third parties, but every single one is just a UI skin around Apple's own browser. That strikes me as a much larger p…

I see it differently. Since Apple makes the hardware and the software I don't have a problem with them preinstalling their own products. However, when a user is clearly searching for alternatives on the app store, it matters how far down you have to scroll to find a 3rd party app. Spotify being the 23rd result for a "music" search is absurd.

Spotify was the 2nd result under Apple Music when I searched myself, though I have both installed so it probably came down to that

Re: How Apple's Apps Topped Rivals in the App Store It Controls

#72

Post by ceejayoz »

simion314 wrote: post #65
ceejayoz wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to have a dominant position to abuse it. You can quibble over whether 80% or 90% is a monopoly, but 40% clearly isn't one.

Just some question so is clear in my mind what your idea is Why more then 80% ? why not 50% + 1 IS 80% of smartphones ? or smartphones+tablets , or all phones , or 80% of capital/financial of all mobile app stores ? What if I say that Apple has 100% monopoly on the iOS? you would say but what about Android ? I would say if I am Netflix,Spotify,Bank X, etc I have no REAL choice as a developer not to make iOS apps simi…

> What if I say that Apple has 100% monopoly on the iOS?

That'd be a silly argument. By that logic, Ford has a 100% monopoly on F-150s.

> why not 50% + 1

Because the "mono" in monopoly means "one", not "two".

You can accurately say that Apple and Google enjoy an oligopoly in the mobile operating system market. You cannot reasonably say either one holds a monopoly.

Re: How Apple's Apps Topped Rivals in the App Store It Controls

#73

Post by umvi »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #60
frogpelt wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see it differently. Since Apple makes the hardware and the software I don't have a problem with them preinstalling their own products. However, when a user is clearly searching for alternatives on the app store, it matters how far down you have to scroll to find a 3rd party app. Spotify being the 23rd result for a "music" search is absurd.

> However, when a user is clearly searching for alternatives on the app store, it matters how far down you have to scroll to find a 3rd party app. If I delete Apple's Calendar, install a third party Calendar app (like Fantastical), and click a date link, I'll get a message asking me if I want to reinstall Apple's Calendar. I think it's pretty darn clear in that scenario what the user actually wants.

On the other hand, Apple products are (or were) frequently marketed towards the tech illiterate ("it just works") and so it's possible grandma accidentally deleted the calendar, tried to re-download via the App Store, downloaded the wrong one, etc.

Re: How Apple's Apps Topped Rivals in the App Store It Controls

#74

Post by m_ke »

coldtea wrote: post #58
Causality1 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU fined Microsoft six hundred million dollars just for including Internet Explorer and Windows Media Player in Windows by default. Apple's behavior is much worse than that.

How many times this old wives tale will have to be repeated till people understand what went on then, and how it's nothing like it's now? Microsoft then had a monopoly on desktop OSes at the time, at 95+ (close to 97%, in fact). Apple has a paltry sub-50% share of mobile OSes. The "But they have 100% share on their own products" is not an argument, as far as the law is concerned, as monopolies are not judged this way…

iOS revenue is 2x larger than android. There might be more cheap android phones out there but Apple has the majority of high income individuals.

Re: How Apple's Apps Topped Rivals in the App Store It Controls

#75

Post by yoz-y »

fortran77 wrote: post #67
yoz-y wrote: post #61

If anything it seems to have gotten better since they started doing their study. Also I suppose Apple puts their apps on top to make it easy to re-install. Imagine if you removed the Music app and then were unable to find it again...

That's not what I got from the article though. Maybe I misread it, but I see that it's talking about how if you say "Podcast" in the search box, you'll see pages and pages of Apple's own apps, unrelated to podcasts, before you start seeing podcast apps.

> "in May 2018"

If you search for podcast now you see an ad, then apple podcasts, then a story about creating podcasts, then apps. In my case I have Spotify on 3rd place after 2 popular local radio apps. The article conveniently omits a history chart for 'podcast' search to push their agenda.

Re: How Apple's Apps Topped Rivals in the App Store It Controls

#76

Post by gumby »

gcatalfamo wrote: post #3

Can I go a little off-topic and comment how really well done this webpage is? Very mobile optimized and nice the “scroll to discover” kind of behavior. Haven’t noticed how long NYT has been doing this kind of stuff but very well done.

Interesting: I feel precisely the opposite: reading text is incredibly efficient and having to mess around to uncover the content is distracting and annoying.

I'm not trying to say "you're right, I'm wrong", or the opposite: different strokes and all that. I found your excitement about the design quite interesting.

Re: How Apple's Apps Topped Rivals in the App Store It Controls

#77

Post by rchaud »

fermenflo wrote: post #20

Ok? I feel like Apple is free to promote whatever they damn please on their own platform. Are we seriously criticizing a company for promoting their products ahead of 3rd party products on their own platform? and I mean, how much money do you think Apple is making from someone having their compass app downloaded? Seems like an inflammatory and in-genuine story.

It wouldn't be a big deal if Apple allowed you to install apps from outside the App Store, like they do with MacOS programs.

Re: How Apple's Apps Topped Rivals in the App Store It Controls

#78

Post by LaMarseillaise »

frogpelt wrote: post #24
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #14

I'm not saying this isn't a problem, but it seems pretty minor compared to the fact that: 1) Apple's apps come preinstalled on every iPhone. 2) Apple's apps have permission to do things that 3rd party apps cannot. If I search for "Web Browser" on the App Store... well, technically I'll get results from third parties, but every single one is just a UI skin around Apple's own browser. That strikes me as a much larger p…

I see it differently. Since Apple makes the hardware and the software I don't have a problem with them preinstalling their own products. However, when a user is clearly searching for alternatives on the app store, it matters how far down you have to scroll to find a 3rd party app. Spotify being the 23rd result for a "music" search is absurd.

I performed this search and Spotify is the 4th result, following Apple Music and two nearly exact matches (and not counting the ad). Also, the name is too long.

Re: How Apple's Apps Topped Rivals in the App Store It Controls

#79

Post by Fnoord »

mitchty wrote: post #48
panpanna wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Spotify being the 23rd result for a "music" search is absurd I have hard time believing this was not intentional. Edit: on Android Spotify is at place 2-4. iTunes is nowhere to be seen but that could be explained with the horrible reviews it has received (some are even legit).

I have a hard time believing it was. iTunes search is wicked bad and has been since day 1. After they started allowing tags for apps it got worse, which is an impressive achievement.

Play Store search is also (still) notoriously bad. Even if it is a 1:1 hit, it does not show that as first entry. And it is full with malware.

Re: How Apple's Apps Topped Rivals in the App Store It Controls

#80

Post by 013a »

Whole Foods stacks their stores with their 365 brand products. In some cases, competitors to certain products aren't even sold.

Of course, there are other grocery stores you can shop at. Just like how there are other mobile platforms you can use. (well: there's another mobile platform, singular. that's a problem).

I don't understand the argument for the App Store being a monopoly. Apple can do whatever they want in their store, just like Whole Foods can sell whatever they want in theirs, or Walmart, or Target, or whoever. If an argument can be made that they're actively trying to destroy the competition in the market of mobile platforms, then we should be much more concerned.

Beyond that: there's a very unique argument that the "platform" (iOS) and the "store" (App Store) are separate entities in a capitalistic market sense. If this is the case: the onus is NOT on the App Store being more open, but rather on iOS for supporting multiple different storefronts. And, again, I think that's not a very interesting argument unless iOS itself is being anti-competitive in the market of all mobile platforms, which doesn't seem to be the case.

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