Last German kaiser's heirs fight for riches lost behind Iron Curtain • Hacker News Board

Re: Last German kaiser's heirs fight for riches lost behind Iron Curtain

#71

Post by zokier » Thu, Sep 05, 2019, 6:35 AM UTC

ap3 wrote: post #61

>A century after Germany's monarchy was abolished, some of its blue-blooded descendants are riding back into battle to reclaim what they see as their royal birthright. How come everybody want to keep it like the kaiser? (sorry) What’s missing here and other land claims around the world is that the Kaiser didn’t sue anyone or plead in international court for the right to have those properties. The monarchs kept those…

> The monarchs kept those lands through the strength of their armies

Not really. The lands in question were granted to them after abdication, when they had very little might anymore. So the question of transition to new world of law was pretty much already resolved in 1925

Re: Last German kaiser's heirs fight for riches lost behind Iron Curtain

#72

Post by bakuninsbart » Thu, Sep 05, 2019, 7:03 AM UTC

stordoff wrote: post #66

bogomipz wrote: post #63

Could a German speaker please provide a phonetic spelling of the proper way to pronounce "Hohenzollerns"? Thanks.

Wikipedia lists hoːənˈtsɔlɐn if you can read IPA, though without citation, which may provide a starting point.

This is the correct pronounciation! I think the only part that varies between pronouncioations is the last vocal, which can be pronounced as an a, e or somewhere in between.

Re: Last German kaiser's heirs fight for riches lost behind Iron Curtain

#73

Post by dbuder » Thu, Sep 05, 2019, 7:08 AM UTC

rbg246 wrote: post #57

colechristensen wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't really seem to have anything of substance to say so I'll just wish you a good day.

I understand that it is hard to digest criticism. Have a good day.

I run into people like you on the internet all the time, who are you, what do you do? what motivates you? why do you argue without any arguments? are you like this in person? were you on the internet in the 90s?

Re: Last German kaiser's heirs fight for riches lost behind Iron Curtain

#74

Post by afiori » Thu, Sep 05, 2019, 8:33 AM UTC

Gibbon1 wrote: post #65

zokier wrote: post #24

Post-communist reparations is one big mess in central Europe. I think the case of Lichtenstein is one of the most stark: > Through the prince of Liechtenstein and his family, this country on the Alpine Rhine was still closely linked to the distant Czech lands in the first half of the 20th century, and after 1918 the prince and other family members had an influential role in Czechoslovakia as late-Medieval propertied…

> It is easy to brush these away as long past history, but for example these properties were confiscated from the hands of the current princes father. That I'd think as pretty close connection still. I'm having a problem coming up with a reason why we should care about the prince of Liechtenstein compared any other random person. Seriously during the period when they lost their lands whole families were totally wiped…

> Especially considering they were neutral during WWII.

Neutrality is strongly in favor of Liechtenstein case here. Similarly to how when the neutral San Marino got bombed in WWII Italy was held liable for reparations.

Re: Last German kaiser's heirs fight for riches lost behind Iron Curtain

#75

Post by DoctorOetker » Thu, Sep 05, 2019, 11:38 AM UTC

Given that:

1) Hitler was in the kaiser's military,

2) sent to spy / infiltrate a left-wing worker's party (DAP, "German Worker's Party"),

3) out of world-wide fear of communism (justified or not), turned it into the NSDAP ("National Socialist German Worker's Party")

4) including Jews as scapegoats (incidentally copying the failed tactic of the russian tsarist secret police, who fabricated the scrolls of zion thing, also to prevent communism)

5) with the well known clusterfuck that was WWII and the holocaust as a result

again, all due to 1) the kaiser's military sending Hitler on this path

then I don't know if there is much to inherit from the kaiser: if you or my parents have both property and debt, you either inherit both or neither, none of us get to cherry pick, why should the heirs of the kaiser get special treatment?

Re: Last German kaiser's heirs fight for riches lost behind Iron Curtain

#76

Post by darkcha0s » Thu, Sep 05, 2019, 2:42 PM UTC

zokier wrote: post #70

Gibbon1 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is easy to brush these away as long past history, but for example these properties were confiscated from the hands of the current princes father. That I'd think as pretty close connection still. I'm having a problem coming up with a reason why we should care about the prince of Liechtenstein compared any other random person. Seriously during the period when they lost their lands whole families were totally wiped…

> I'm having a problem coming up with a reason why we should care about the prince of Liechtenstein compared any other random person I see the situation in quite the opposite way; these high profile cases spearheading the effort to get the soviet/communist abuses acknowledged and establishing the principle of restitution that'll then help all those subjected to confiscations etc

1. So what about the abuses that came before, which lead these families to have such vast properties and wealth? Those castles weren't built by good will

2. I can only echo the sentiment that I care very little about restitution of former royals, while entire families were dispossessed or wiped out in the same periods of time. Not like anyone cared to return the millions stolen from the Jews during WW2

Re: Last German kaiser's heirs fight for riches lost behind Iron Curtain

#77

Post by Litmus2336 » Thu, Sep 05, 2019, 3:27 PM UTC

zokier wrote: post #52

Litmus2336 wrote: post #38

I'm not exactly super sympathetic to monarchs though. I don't think it's unreasonable that, after the fall of the monarchy, they lose most of their assets.

The monarchy aspect is a red herring here. The properties in question were granted to the family long after the abdication. The soviet confiscation had little to do with the fall of monarcy in this case

You're totally correct that the properties in the article were granted after abdication, but I'm not in favor of the large amount of property returned to them after WW1.

And in regards to Soviet confiscation in Czechoslovakia, I would argue that the Communist revolution in Europe is related to the fall of the Monarchy, and when Communists come to power it makes sense that they would seize the land of nobles (even those from other countries).

Re: Last German kaiser's heirs fight for riches lost behind Iron Curtain

#78

Post by gwbas1c » Thu, Sep 05, 2019, 4:37 PM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #39

oh_sigh wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, a person with the bully pulpit coming out announcing that you should all put your trust in Adolph sounds like considerable support. If some random baker did it, maybe not.

But did he have a bully pulpit? Germany wasn't a monarchy then. Did he have any power? Or was he just some random socially prominent guy?

At least in the UK, the royal family is adamantly non-political.

Re: Last German kaiser's heirs fight for riches lost behind Iron Curtain

#79

Post by Gibbon1 » Thu, Sep 05, 2019, 7:03 PM UTC

afiori wrote: post #74

Gibbon1 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is easy to brush these away as long past history, but for example these properties were confiscated from the hands of the current princes father. That I'd think as pretty close connection still. I'm having a problem coming up with a reason why we should care about the prince of Liechtenstein compared any other random person. Seriously during the period when they lost their lands whole families were totally wiped…

> Especially considering they were neutral during WWII. Neutrality is strongly in favor of Liechtenstein case here. Similarly to how when the neutral San Marino got bombed in WWII Italy was held liable for reparations.

Everyone had to sacrifice something, my uncle sacrificed 4 years of his life. Maybe losing his inherited lands is the prince of Liechtenstein's sacrifice.

Re: Last German kaiser's heirs fight for riches lost behind Iron Curtain

#80

Post by Gibbon1 » Thu, Sep 05, 2019, 7:08 PM UTC

darkcha0s wrote: post #76

zokier wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm having a problem coming up with a reason why we should care about the prince of Liechtenstein compared any other random person I see the situation in quite the opposite way; these high profile cases spearheading the effort to get the soviet/communist abuses acknowledged and establishing the principle of restitution that'll then help all those subjected to confiscations etc

1. So what about the abuses that came before, which lead these families to have such vast properties and wealth? Those castles weren't built by good will 2. I can only echo the sentiment that I care very little about restitution of former royals, while entire families were dispossessed or wiped out in the same periods of time. Not like anyone cared to return the millions stolen from the Jews during WW2

Misc reading led me down a rabbit hole of how wealthy land owners in Prussia would use tax laws and threats of force to steal land from smaller farmers.