It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too • Hacker News Board

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#71

Post by onemoresoop » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 4:07 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #8

megablast wrote: post #6

I don't get this. It is like being an accomplished painter, but never painting anything for yourself. Or a carpenter, and not making your own table or chairs. As a coder, you have the ability to create almost anything. How can that knowledge not tempt you to create something yourself?

I'm not sure I would take "only" in that case too literally. There are a lot of people who genuinely do enjoy programming but get quite enough of it at work, thank you very much. In my case I do a lot of writing (words) for work and like doing it--among other things that are part of my job. That doesn't mean I spend every night working on writing the great American novel--though I do know writers at work who also do…

> the belief in many corners of tech that writing software must be some all-consuming passion is unhealthy.

To add to this, it’s not only unhealthy but leads one away from the concrete reality we live in and this results to out of touch thinking.

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#72

Post by jpd- » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 4:08 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #44

Waterluvian wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gonna bet that for whatever reasons they do it, people who code on their own time are on average better coders and will on average have an easier time gettinv employment. Isn't this true for any skill (except maybe neurosurgery)?

>Isn't this true for any skill I'm not sure why it would hold that, if you do something for 40 hours a week, you'll necessarily improve if you do it for an even greater amount of time. And, besides, effectiveness as a developer is not just about coding anyway. A lot more goes into creating products and services than lines of code.

The underlying assumption is that when you code outside of work, you're working on things that are different from what you do at work.

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#73

Post by dragonwriter » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 4:09 PM UTC

jasode wrote: post #29

>It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too That short life-affirming quote structured like a pithy aphorism is hiding the true debate that motivates it. The real discussion before that quote is this: Some employers prefer programmers that like programming outside of work. For the other programmers that would rather constrain coding work to 40 hours a week, they feel that employer preference is…

> Some employers prefer programmers that like programming outside of work

Many employers prefer programmers that keep current with new technologies, and programmers will generally have better opportunities for job switching the broader their skills are. Many employers also don't provide much opportunity for breadth development in working hours, leaving programmers in a narrow lane if they restrict themselves to programming at work.

It's not that employers specifically prefer you programming outside of work, programming outside of work is a way of avoiding getting sick in a rut defined by you your present role with your present employer.

There are, also, employers that use “your life is coding” as a filter, probably because they are looking for people whose preferred lifestyle wouldn't change if they were in nearly 24/7 crunch mode. Unless you are one of those people, even if your actually do like to code outside of work, you should probably avoid those firms like the plague.

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#74

Post by ghaff » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 4:11 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #69

kwhitefoot wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you would not be hired at his firm. If they make that public it would be good, it would save me the bother of applying for a job with them.

While it would be nice of these companies to out themselves so we can avoid them, it’s usually pretty easy to read between the lines and spot them. Their job descriptions tend to have more red flags than a Chinese parade. I can spot a “you must have no life outside of work” job opening a mile away and avoid it.

"We want passionate developers to join our family. We work hard and we play hard. Together. You'll be part of an exceptional team that won't slow down until we've changed the world."

How did I do?

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#75

Post by jpd- » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 4:12 PM UTC

jasode wrote: post #29

>It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too That short life-affirming quote structured like a pithy aphorism is hiding the true debate that motivates it. The real discussion before that quote is this: Some employers prefer programmers that like programming outside of work. For the other programmers that would rather constrain coding work to 40 hours a week, they feel that employer preference is…

I feel like a lot of people that push back on this premise do so believing that "coding outside of work" means doing more of your day job. When you look at it from that perspective, yeah, doing 60 hours of the same thing per week instead of 40 is not going to do much for you.

In reality, most people that code outside of work do so to learn new things; new stacks or languages, or take on projects that are orthogonal to their day job.

I think the argument should probably be framed around "learning outside of work" rather than "coding outside of work".

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#76

Post by onemoresoop » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 4:12 PM UTC

gregf wrote: post #11

If you don't have the desire to do this after work you probably shouldn't even be in the field is how I look at it.

Ok, so if one day you loose the desire to do code at home, by your own thinking, you should leave the field altogether?

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#77

Post by onemoresoop » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 4:29 PM UTC

salex89 wrote: post #14

I really wanted to code my own side projects in my spare time. I always have so much ideas that I become anxious when will I have time for them all. But during my spare time, which I would like to designate to my own projects, life kicks in. Something breaks, an old friend is back in town, I don't feel well, there is a recipe I want to try or my girlfriend and I want to have a day outdoors because we didn't have enou…

If I were an employer I’d like to see a healthy life outside of work on a prospective hire. Mental health is a great factor in work productivity too

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#78

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 4:31 PM UTC

yowlingcat wrote: post #36

jasode wrote: post #29

>It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too That short life-affirming quote structured like a pithy aphorism is hiding the true debate that motivates it. The real discussion before that quote is this: Some employers prefer programmers that like programming outside of work. For the other programmers that would rather constrain coding work to 40 hours a week, they feel that employer preference is…

I don't know if I agree with your premises or conclusions. I think employers prefer engineers who are effective and have a past track record of success. For some companies, some of these are going to have a "can't rip my keyboard out of my hands" characteristic, but I've mostly found that working on software outside of work has minimal correlation with productivity. Engineers that are steadily growing and continuing…

[deleted]

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#79

Post by majewsky » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 4:57 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #70

ghaff wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who is (more or less) in marketing, I'm not sure what studying/practicing marketing outside of work even looks like. I suppose I could read more business books--I read some--but mostly they don't have a whole lot of value. Am I supposed to have a side gig where I do some consulting? I'd think you might have a problem if I were to do that for closely related companies where I had the most experience. (Not t…

Also there is a difference between studying and reflecting on something outside of work, and actually practicing outside of work. Do I want my surgeon to be studying the latest techniques outside of his work? YES Do I need a surgeon who dissects animals and removes tumors at home as a hobby on weekends? NO

The latter sounds like a fun premise for a TV series, though.

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#80

Post by jpd- » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 5:41 PM UTC

PopeDotNinja wrote: post #38

arvinsim wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe hiring decisions are employers perogative. What I do appreciate is them being honest and upfront about it so that I don't waste time pursuing a job that might not fit me.

That works until their cumulative prerogatives shut you out of your chosen career because they're discriminating against you. Discrimination is simply avoiding the thing you don't prefer because you have a preference for something else. If you discriminate against enough people, it becomes a problem for people who don't fit into your prerogative.

The entire hiring process is an act of discrimination. What's the alternative? Hire everybody that applies?