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At Booming Toptal, No Stock for Employees or Investors

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Re: At Booming Toptal, No Stock for Employees or Investors

#71

Post by marcinzm »

tmarman wrote: post #69
marcinzm wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That depends on what exactly the company said to candidates and how upfront they were about the terms. In my experience companies do far more selling than just sending out an offer. Furthermore, the offer in my experience doesn't include the paperwork for equity unless you request to review it.

Every single employment offer I've sent or received that included equity stated so in the offer letter, expressed either as a % or an absolute number of shares.

Did it include the detailed paperwork for the equity which would include all terms such as requiring conversion to a corporation? Or was it just a number that you assumed didn't have any gotcha clauses attached?

Re: At Booming Toptal, No Stock for Employees or Investors

#72

Post by plorkyeran »

baron816 wrote: post #67

I don’t feel that bad for the investors, or really even the employees. A lot of startup equity is worthless anyway. But screwing over your cofounder and COO—your partner who’s been on the frontlines with you effectively running the company for eight years—that’s incredibly scummy. That’s a real psychopath move. How can someone be so greedy?

The company is currently suing the no-equity cofounder COO for fraud. Perhaps the lawsuit is entirely baseless and this is just another part of the CEO fucking his cofounder over, or perhaps there's actually a good reason for the cofounder to not get any equity. We really don't have the ability to judge based on the information we have, and calling the CEO a psychopath is a bit much.

Re: At Booming Toptal, No Stock for Employees or Investors

#73

Post by ggg3 »

rahuldottech wrote: post #11

I am a teenager, and know nothing of starting or running a company. That said, from what I have read, is it not true that investors who hold equity constantly apply pressure to maximise profits, often leading to companies doing... unethical things? Whenever I've complained about a company being unethical or user-unfriendly, a friend of mine who lives in the US and knows more about this stuff always points out that be…

the problem here is not the option to fund a company with investors or not. Everyone keeps mixing subjects here.

here the article is about some who instead of choosing one or the other, got the best of both for himself while leaving the worst from both to his employees. nothing else. honest people can still self fund or be a startup with equity all the same without being in the news like this here.

Re: At Booming Toptal, No Stock for Employees or Investors

#74

Post by jameslk »

kirubakaran wrote: post #64
jameslk wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had a few projects from them, one very large with a Bay Area client spanning a year. In the early days they would suggest a lower rate but now they change it to whatever I ask. I'm not sure what your rate is, but mine is competitive with Bay Area agency rates. Definitely better than Upwork (Elance) since I wouldn't be able to find the type of enterprisey clients I find on Toptal.

I'm curious what their percentage cut is.

Depends but it's been between 30-50%. They add that on top of the rate I request.

Re: At Booming Toptal, No Stock for Employees or Investors

#75

Post by jonthepirate »

I was Taso's roommate on Ramona st in Palo Alto for 6 months back when he started his company with his founder who was familiar with running a consulting company. It's really the ultimate arbitrage - take a cut of a kagillion foreigner's hourly pay to enrich yourself. Good for him. One day he sort of disappeared and I never heard from him again. Glad to see he's doing well.

Re: At Booming Toptal, No Stock for Employees or Investors

#76

Post by sidlls »

jameslk wrote: post #39
sidlls wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I briefly freelanced with them in 2014/2015 and I found it to be no better than E-lance or the like. They definitely didn't (at that time) do have any better clients, and they constantly pressured me to lower my rate (which I considered already to be low).

I've had a few projects from them, one very large with a Bay Area client spanning a year. In the early days they would suggest a lower rate but now they change it to whatever I ask. I'm not sure what your rate is, but mine is competitive with Bay Area agency rates. Definitely better than Upwork (Elance) since I wouldn't be able to find the type of enterprisey clients I find on Toptal.

When I was doing it they claimed that $65 per hour was a "good" rate for the Bay Area, and constantly pressured me to lower my rate to that. There were a few clients with names anyone here would recognize, but they were looking on Toptal specifically to get cheap labor for poorly specified work. Most of the clients were more like the stereotypical E-lance "small business" (read: one-person operation looking for cheap developers to build them the next Facebook for the equivalent of a $500 fixed fee).

Re: At Booming Toptal, No Stock for Employees or Investors

#77

Post by diekhead »

staticautomatic wrote: post #20
elsewhen wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Luring employees with promises of equity and then not delivering sounds like a bait and switch.

But they weren't lured with the promise of equity. The promise was that they'd get equity if there was a subsequent funding round . The investors, especially, have zero right to complain.

that is not true. my options have NOTHING to do with additional funding, but with converting the corporate structure of the company - which Taso, CEO, said he would do, multiple times, back then - he's not changing his tune.

Re: At Booming Toptal, No Stock for Employees or Investors

#78

Post by ymolodtsov »

staticautomatic wrote: post #20
elsewhen wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Luring employees with promises of equity and then not delivering sounds like a bait and switch.

But they weren't lured with the promise of equity. The promise was that they'd get equity if there was a subsequent funding round . The investors, especially, have zero right to complain.

1. This is a very unusual structure in the first place. The company do issue new common stock at funding rounds specifically for stock options but they don't make employees wait for it. 2. This is a common practice for venture-backed companies so people might expect that. Lawyers might say nobody lied to them – but Silicon Valley is not about lawyers.

Re: At Booming Toptal, No Stock for Employees or Investors

#79

Post by kirubakaran »

jameslk wrote: post #74
kirubakaran wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious what their percentage cut is.

Depends but it's been between 30-50%. They add that on top of the rate I request.

Thanks. It sounds really high for basically minimal risk and not even actively sourcing the clients, but I guess that's how these businesses work.

Re: At Booming Toptal, No Stock for Employees or Investors

#80

Post by jameslk »

sidlls wrote: post #76
jameslk wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had a few projects from them, one very large with a Bay Area client spanning a year. In the early days they would suggest a lower rate but now they change it to whatever I ask. I'm not sure what your rate is, but mine is competitive with Bay Area agency rates. Definitely better than Upwork (Elance) since I wouldn't be able to find the type of enterprisey clients I find on Toptal.

When I was doing it they claimed that $65 per hour was a "good" rate for the Bay Area, and constantly pressured me to lower my rate to that. There were a few clients with names anyone here would recognize, but they were looking on Toptal specifically to get cheap labor for poorly specified work. Most of the clients were more like the stereotypical E-lance "small business" (read: one-person operation looking for cheap…

I think they've definitely changed. I remember them low balling me on rate in the beginning. Also it depends on the recruiter you talk to. I'm definitely nowhere near $65/hr :)
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