Three Years of Misery Inside Google, the Happiest Company in Tech • Hacker News Board

Re: Three Years of Misery Inside Google, the Happiest Company in Tech

#71

Post by kaitai » Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 2:22 PM UTC

tudelo wrote: post #35

jlokier wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the GP's point is they don't think there is anything they can afford to do to better their situation in ways that matter. All actions other than status quo lead to something worse. (Loss of job, unaffordable debt, etc.) And it's a perfectly normal situation in their part of the world for their skills and occupation, so it isn't them, it's just real life for the peasants. That's why they struggle to find sympa…

It's so easy to make excuses for ourselves and others but I don't think making 35k vs making 150k is really anything like being a peasant vs being royalty... but maybe I don't know enough about that topic.

On the one hand, I'm a little impatient with the litany of complaint & dismissal of options like getting a degree... there's always something you can do... but on the other hand, making $35k vs $150k really is like being a peasant vs a royal. On $150k a year you can save -- save a lot if you're in a low cost of living area, save a bit less in a high cost of living area. On $35k a year you are fine if you have good health and no dependents, but if you've got to pay for daycare or elder care or support anyone else, you're on an endless treadmill just this far away from missing a bill or being unable to deal with car trouble or a furnace problem or a sudden eviction because your landlord's brother wants to move in.... it really does feel impossible to make it out of the financial trap. It might not be impossible, but it's very very hard.

Re: Three Years of Misery Inside Google, the Happiest Company in Tech

#72

Post by jlokier » Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 2:23 PM UTC

tudelo wrote: post #35

jlokier wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the GP's point is they don't think there is anything they can afford to do to better their situation in ways that matter. All actions other than status quo lead to something worse. (Loss of job, unaffordable debt, etc.) And it's a perfectly normal situation in their part of the world for their skills and occupation, so it isn't them, it's just real life for the peasants. That's why they struggle to find sympa…

It's so easy to make excuses for ourselves and others but I don't think making 35k vs making 150k is really anything like being a peasant vs being royalty... but maybe I don't know enough about that topic.

Fair enough. You're probably right, although I'm not sure how numbers would apply anyway.

I meant the sentiment: Where life at Google sounds so remote and unachievable to the median-income 31k person, as if walled-off in a luxurious palace on the top of a nearby, annoyingly visible hill; a totally unrelatable life of relative luxury.

Rather than a numerically apt comparison.

Re: Three Years of Misery Inside Google, the Happiest Company in Tech

#73

Post by ggambetta » Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 2:23 PM UTC

chadlavi wrote: post #41

Google doesn't even pay well enough to treat people poorly. They're wagering an awful lot on the premise that working for Google is prestigious enough to sustainably attract and retain talent. Meanwhile a smaller tech startup will pay better and give you way more of a hand in shaping the product, and maybe even not work you 80+hours a week. I'm not sure what the appeal of the big names is for devs.

> Google doesn't even pay well enough to treat people poorly. [...] Meanwhile a smaller tech startup will pay better [...] maybe even not work you 80+hours a week

Having worked both at Google and at smaller tech startups, this is pretty much the opposite of reality. I wonder where are you getting these ideas from.

Re: Three Years of Misery Inside Google, the Happiest Company in Tech

#74

Post by MiroF » Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 2:27 PM UTC

segmondy wrote: post #32

My eyes are hurting from seeing these articles whining about their misery while collecting hundreds of thousands of dollars each year. Most companies have issues, and these issues are not "Company" issues but PEOPLE issues. Once you're large enough, you are going to have people with differing opinions, beliefs and values. These are going to clash. If you happen to be on the losing side and don't learn to accept it, y…

I find this argument so facile. You can agitate for greater labor rights - I don't see why anyone would be convinced by: "but look how much more shitty these other workers lives are."

Exactly - and managers would do that to tech workers in a second if they could. Let's make the best of our negotiating position while we can.

Re: Three Years of Misery Inside Google, the Happiest Company in Tech

#75

Post by pcstl » Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 2:28 PM UTC

I find it somewhat hypocritical that this article describes Google as a safe haven of dissent and open discussion, while it is pretty unanimous that expressing even slightly right-of-center opinions at Google will have you ostracized and possibly fired.

Re: Three Years of Misery Inside Google, the Happiest Company in Tech

#76

Post by rinchik » Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 2:29 PM UTC

segmondy wrote: post #32

My eyes are hurting from seeing these articles whining about their misery while collecting hundreds of thousands of dollars each year. Most companies have issues, and these issues are not "Company" issues but PEOPLE issues. Once you're large enough, you are going to have people with differing opinions, beliefs and values. These are going to clash. If you happen to be on the losing side and don't learn to accept it, y…

But think about the starving children in [insert some county here]!

Quite common fallacy and useless misdirection. Article is not about minimum wage work struggles but about a struggle of people with particular skill set in particular environment. Not sure how your inappropriate outburst and lack of focus is relevant here?

Re: Three Years of Misery Inside Google, the Happiest Company in Tech

#77

Post by pjc50 » Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 2:29 PM UTC

segmondy wrote: post #32

My eyes are hurting from seeing these articles whining about their misery while collecting hundreds of thousands of dollars each year. Most companies have issues, and these issues are not "Company" issues but PEOPLE issues. Once you're large enough, you are going to have people with differing opinions, beliefs and values. These are going to clash. If you happen to be on the losing side and don't learn to accept it, y…

The thing is, much of this is not about their own conditions. Much of it is about the way the company treats other people, either within or outside the company.

If worker-boss relationships can't be fixed at a company where the workers are economically valuable and highly educated, how can that be propagated downwards to the rest of the economy? Do people actually want it fixed, or are they more afraid of their fellow workers than their abusive boss?

Re: Three Years of Misery Inside Google, the Happiest Company in Tech

#78

Post by MiroF » Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 2:31 PM UTC

afthonos wrote: post #69

ryanmercer wrote: post #6

There's algae in the tube feeding the ice machine in my company's break room, multiple wet ceiling tiles all year long, signs telling us to literally not wipe our feces on the walls in the bathroom, shared desks with other shifts, a constant smell of mold and I make 35k a year, no chance of promotion at all without taking on tens of thousands of dollars of debt to get a 4-year degree in literally anything, at a rabid…

Disclosure: I work at Google, and in absolutely no way do I speak for anyone other than myself. Your situation is awful. In fact, it's so bad that no one should ever have to be in it, and you're absolutely right that ours is eons better. That doesn't mean this is the way things must be. All of those benefits you listed—they are things that any decent society would provide. The fact that Google choosing to be decent i…

> All of those benefits you listed—they are things that any decent society would provide. The fact that Google choosing to be decent is not only so rare, but also contempt-inducing in people who are ground down by other companies is a staggering win for every other company that doesn't want to offer good benefits.

I've been trying to articulate this in this thread, but you've said it far better than I did.

Re: Three Years of Misery Inside Google, the Happiest Company in Tech

#79

Post by cj » Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 2:31 PM UTC

joelx wrote: post #60

high_derivative wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My inside-FAAMNG experience has been that most employees seem to be not interested in the politics and are primarily focused on doing good work (people in their 20s), or on putting in their 8 hours and going home to their families (people >30 mostly, of course they also want to do good work, just have additional new priorities in a young family). Then there is a vocal minority who leverage that no individual's perfor…

I agree completely with this. Keep in mind that true evil is MBS ordering the murder of journalist Khasshogi. True evil is invading and conquering Crimea. True evil is murdering your generals with anti-aircraft guns or watching dogs tear them apart while still alive. Serving banner ads across sites does not even remotely compare.

Did you just compare Google's advertising business to assassination, murder, and war crime?

Re: Three Years of Misery Inside Google, the Happiest Company in Tech

#80

Post by andrew_ » Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 2:33 PM UTC

It's disappointing that the author didn't take the opportunity to choose language that didn't provide a distinct slant to the article. An objective tone would have been totally achievable and this would've been marked as a fairly good summation of a rather tumultuous few years for the giant.