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As Scotland's 'Trainspotting' Generation Ages, the Dead Pile Up

nytimes.com

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Re: As Scotland's 'Trainspotting' Generation Ages, the Dead Pile Up

#71

Post by tremon »

ensmartha wrote: post #54

Maybe there’s just no solution to the drug problem. We’ve tried everything already at great cost. Sometimes it’s better to admit a war is not winnable and to pull out before wasting more resources.

We’ve tried everything already at great cost

Even if that's the case (I don't think it is), maybe we should try the things that cost a lot less? Maybe legalize it and tax the hell out of it? Cut out the illegal market by legalizing the sales and production channels? As a bonus, you will get much more accurate statistics about drug use, the effectiveness of countermeasures, and you get better quality control.

We also haven't tried the most harsh but cost-effective solution: flood the market with 100% lethal knockoffs, consequences be damned.

There are solutions to the drug problem, just like there are solutions to the alcohol problem. Going to war with a concept is just not one of those solutions.

Re: As Scotland's 'Trainspotting' Generation Ages, the Dead Pile Up

#72

Post by giobox »

jdietrich wrote: post #61
giobox wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Macfarlan Smith link is interesting and not something I’ve ever heard before. Is there any other information on this on the web or elsewhere? A google for “Macfarlan Smith” and “Heroin” only returns your comment here as best I could find in a few minutes of searching.

As a pharmaceutical product, heroin is called diamorphine, which should turn up more information. This article from The Scotsman newspaper mentions the theft of diamorphine from the MacFarlan Smith factory. https://www.scotsman.com/news-2-15012/drug-menace-off-the-st...

Thanks for the link!

Re: As Scotland's 'Trainspotting' Generation Ages, the Dead Pile Up

#73

Post by chrisseaton »

billfruit wrote: post #53

I do feel that the book had the effect of popularizing the insinuation that trainspotting is a futile, otiose pursuit, where as for many people it is a pleasearuble, fulfilling hobby with some of the same evocations that birdwatching does.

Do you mean heroin is a fufilling hobby? 'Trainspotting' is a euphemism for taking heroin. The novel and the film don't have anything to do with literally spotting trains.

Re: As Scotland's 'Trainspotting' Generation Ages, the Dead Pile Up

#74

Post by dfawcus »

Theodores wrote: post #18
jdietrich wrote: post #3

Not mentioned in the article: The Scottish heroin epidemic started in Edinburgh, the more prosperous of Scotland's two largest cities. This was largely due to the presence of MacFarlan Smith, which was at one point the world's largest producer of pharmaceutical opiates. That initial cohort of heroin users in the 1980s predominantly used drugs that were diverted from the legitimate pharmaceutical supply rather than sm…

That is rare information. Never heard of MacFarlan Smith before. To add to the cocktail of drugs there is also glue sniffing. South of the border you will never see anyone sniffing glue and I doubt there are many people in England who wake up in the morning with a burning desire to sit in the street sniffing glue. But this goes on in Glasgow. I found this shocking to see. There is also 'Bucky' that alcohol that is no…

regarding glue sniffing in England:

There were plenty of them where I grew up in NE England, so that it pre '86. You'd often find them in the local park when out walking the dog - or the dog would find them.

Re: As Scotland's 'Trainspotting' Generation Ages, the Dead Pile Up

#75

Post by billfruit »

chrisseaton wrote: post #73
billfruit wrote: post #53

I do feel that the book had the effect of popularizing the insinuation that trainspotting is a futile, otiose pursuit, where as for many people it is a pleasearuble, fulfilling hobby with some of the same evocations that birdwatching does.

Do you mean heroin is a fufilling hobby? 'Trainspotting' is a euphemism for taking heroin. The novel and the film don't have anything to do with literally spotting trains.

I meant the real trainspotting.

Re: As Scotland's 'Trainspotting' Generation Ages, the Dead Pile Up

#76

Post by GordonS »

Theodores wrote: post #51
welly wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> South of the border you will never see anyone sniffing glue and I doubt there are many people in England who wake up in the morning with a burning desire to sit in the street sniffing glue This is quite an unsubstantiated claim. Never? Of course you will, and do. > There is also 'Bucky' that alcohol that is not sold south of the border. This is patently false. It's made in Devon at Buckfast Abbey, so of course it's…

You are nit-picking here. I have spent a lot of time in the scummier parts of London and yet to step over some kid sniffing glue. In Glasgow it is an all too common sight. You can check the health statistics and I am sure there are a few parts of North England and Northern Ireland that are similarly blighted but glue is not a problem south of the Watford Gap in the way that it is in Glasgow. Sure Bucky is now stocked…

> It isn't marketed in England in the same way it is marketed in Scotland

Scot here - Buckfast is certainly notorious in the central belt, but I've never seen it actually advertised anywhere, in any medium?

Re: As Scotland's 'Trainspotting' Generation Ages, the Dead Pile Up

#77

Post by GordonS »

strainer wrote: post #41
Theodores wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is rare information. Never heard of MacFarlan Smith before. To add to the cocktail of drugs there is also glue sniffing. South of the border you will never see anyone sniffing glue and I doubt there are many people in England who wake up in the morning with a burning desire to sit in the street sniffing glue. But this goes on in Glasgow. I found this shocking to see. There is also 'Bucky' that alcohol that is no…

Buckfast doesn't deserve to be lumped with glue sniffing. It is more an icon of revelry than alcoholism with it costing about twice as much as cheap wine. Its herbal stimulants give it an immediate effect similar to doing shots of a spirit but with half the alcohol load.

I never realised it was anything other than alcohol. I had a quick look, but didn't see anything about "herbal stimulants"?

Re: As Scotland's 'Trainspotting' Generation Ages, the Dead Pile Up

#78

Post by 7000skeletons »

GordonS wrote: post #76
Theodores wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are nit-picking here. I have spent a lot of time in the scummier parts of London and yet to step over some kid sniffing glue. In Glasgow it is an all too common sight. You can check the health statistics and I am sure there are a few parts of North England and Northern Ireland that are similarly blighted but glue is not a problem south of the Watford Gap in the way that it is in Glasgow. Sure Bucky is now stocked…

> It isn't marketed in England in the same way it is marketed in Scotland Scot here - Buckfast is certainly notorious in the central belt, but I've never seen it actually advertised anywhere, in any medium?

Buckfast isn't really something that gets marketed in Scotland, as far as I've ever seen. It's more just garnered that reputation as a drink that will get you buzzed on a night out really fast. I drank it when I was younger, but these days the hangovers just aren't worth it.

Re: As Scotland's 'Trainspotting' Generation Ages, the Dead Pile Up

#79

Post by GordonS »

_Understated_ wrote: post #4

My late brother used to talk about an area outside Glasgow called Springburn and how it is consistently listed as one of the poorest/deprived places in Europe (not sure if that was the correct term but it gets the point across). Yet each election term they voted in either the same politicians or politicians with the same manifestos. Nothing will change!

> Yet each election term they voted in either the same politicians or politicians with the same manifestos

There is a large cross-section of the population that vote for Labour irregardless of, well, anything.

Generations have voted for Labour because their parents, grandparents and great great grandparents did, and because they believe Labour stands for working class people and values - all the while without once considering what their policies or values actually are, or indeed those of the opposing parties.

This cross-section also firmly believes the Conservatives are 'rich toffs' trying to screw over the working classes, and the Liberal Democrats are 'liberal lefties' (and of course we can't have that!)

Will the dogma ever end? The tabloid press, and indeed sometimes Labour politicians, continue their poisonous to stoking of the flames, and people just nod their heads.

Politics in the UK really is a terrible mess.

Re: As Scotland's 'Trainspotting' Generation Ages, the Dead Pile Up

#80

Post by chrisfinne »

panzagl wrote: post #69
arethuza wrote: post #2

Scotland is a tiny country but it never ceases to horrify me at the depth of the social and health divisions between different parts of the country, Scotland is often described as the "sick man of Europe" and Glasgow in particular has a remarkably bad life expectancy - the "Glasgow Effect": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_effect I can strongly recommend Darren McGarvey's Poverty Safari a personal account of a d…

In the US one of the most persistent areas of poverty and opioid abuse (Appalachia) was largely settled by Scots displaced during the 18th Century. I wonder if anyone has done any research into a correlation, it not there's at least a master's thesis in it for some sociology student somewhere.

Thomas Sowell digs into this in his book "Black Rednecks and White Liberals"

quote from the book's Wikipedia page:

Sowell argues that the black ghetto culture, which is claimed to be "authentic black culture", is actually a highly dysfunctional white southern redneck culture which existed during the antebellum South. This culture came, in turn, from the "Cracker culture" of the North Britons and Scots-Irish who migrated from the generally lawless border regions of Britain.

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