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The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

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Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#71

Post by jjtheblunt »

soperj wrote: post #18
omarhaneef wrote: post #11

I think the part that rings clearly in my head is the ethical part. I really cannot believe we eat animals. I know other animals do it all the time -- and I don't hold it against tigers and lions -- but its still strange to me that we, humans, do it. If you don't feel that strong surprise, then I think the other arguments may or may not work for you. But if you have that sense that it is strange and perhaps off, then…

I feel the same way about vegetables. I know other animals do it all the time, but when you add them up all the plant deaths are horrific.

Except the consumption of many vegetables/fruits IS the purpose, in order to disperse its seeds, no?

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#72

Post by dreamcompiler »

mythrwy wrote: post #57
dreamcompiler wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less than 3% of cattle wander around eating wild grass. Most cattle are fed grains, grass, and alfalfa that was farmed on purpose as cattle feed. If cattle didn't need the grass, the farmer would be growing human food on that land.

I'd be interested in seeing a source for that less than 3% number. However most cattle are certainly finished on grain without a doubt. Grain that could possibly put to better uses (or not grown and save the fuel and water).

TFA said it: "America gets 97 percent of its beef from feedlots."

Here's another one:

https://www.reference.com/pets-animals/cows-eat-a677816334f1...

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#73

Post by zackmorris »

I'm excited for meat alternatives, but have 3 thoughts on them that I haven't seen mentioned yet (I'm 42):

* Nearly all of the rangeland and high desert in the western US was destroyed by cattle and sheep grazing over the past 150 years. This is a billion dollar industry with the emotional buy-in of millions of people so I'm skeptical that it will be reformed in our lifetimes.

* My digestive system got wrecked trying to be on a mostly vegetarian diet over several years after the housing bubble popped. The gist of it is that the lectins (and other defense mechanisms in the husks) of legumes and nightshades disrupt the mucus lining of the intestines, which leads to leaky gut and stool getting into the body cavity and blood (leaky gut), which may lead to autoimmune diseases like colitis and arthritis. Something about animal protein heals this lining, probably because humans evolved as scavengers eating leftover kills and carrion from top predators.

* I have not yet seen studies comparing the healing and regenerative properties of meat compared to plant protein, especially concerning bodybuilding. In my own experience, there is simply no comparison between the two. Beef, eggs, salmon, tuna, turkey and chicken simply dwarf any gains obtained from bean burritos (I wish this wasn't the case). I don't know a solution to this, although I'm guessing that a portion of the gains are hormonal. Maybe someone can isolate the animal compounds and make supplements similar to creatine, BCAAs, glutamine, taurine, etc.

Not to knock current meat alternatives, but I view them sort of like compact fluorescent light bulbs, as a 10 or 20 year stopgap until we have true test tube meat (LED bulbs).

In order for meat alternatives to compete with meat, someone will need to reform the federal food subsidies that keep meat an order of magnitude cheaper than it should be. An impossible burger should cost LESS than beef, not more.

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#74

Post by bregma »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #39
sbooher wrote: post #19

Pea protein isolates, rice protein, mung bean protein, canola oil etc are Not food. I would not feed this to my dog. In fact, lined up against a bag of cheap dog food, you might pick the dog food... In a world awash in heavily-processed food, we now add this to the mix and get excited about it. Statements about how "inefficient" cows are in making meat re calories ingested, usually fail to mention that for most of th…

Less than 3% of cattle wander around eating wild grass. Most cattle are fed grains, grass, and alfalfa that was farmed on purpose as cattle feed. If cattle didn't need the grass, the farmer would be growing human food on that land.

Not where I live. There's lots of beef farming but the alternative of rock farming is unproductive and generally gives poor enough returns on investment that most families leave for the city within a generation.

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#75

Post by nightski »

munificent wrote: post #53
formalsystem wrote: post #9

I'm starting to think more and more that people promoting plant based burgers have either never tasted beef or never tasted a plant based burger. If the main concern is environment I get it and go for it. But if you are claiming that plant based burgers are healthier or tastier you are borderline delusional. Last time I cooked a Beyond Meat burger I noticed it was 30% canola oil. 30% CANOLA OIL, might as well just in…

> Last time I cooked a Beyond Meat burger I noticed it was 30% canola oil. 30% CANOLA OIL Burgers are typically made from 80/20 ground beef. That's 80% meat, 20% fat.

Yea but it's typically unsaturated & saturated fat which is being less demonized these days. I'm convinced it's actually healthy for you but don't take my word for it.

Refined Canola Oil & Soybean Oil however have artificial trans fatty acids and are high in omega-6 which is inflammatory.

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#76

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

travelton wrote: post #51
formalsystem wrote: post #9

I'm starting to think more and more that people promoting plant based burgers have either never tasted beef or never tasted a plant based burger. If the main concern is environment I get it and go for it. But if you are claiming that plant based burgers are healthier or tastier you are borderline delusional. Last time I cooked a Beyond Meat burger I noticed it was 30% canola oil. 30% CANOLA OIL, might as well just in…

How did you land at 30% canola oil? There's three fats in Beyond Meat burgers, Expeller-Pressed Canola Oil, Refined Coconut Oil, and Cocoa Butter. The total fat content is 18g per serving. Each serving is 113g total. That's 15% total fat content per serving. We don't know the canola, coconut, or cocoa butter ratio, but we can at least assume total canola oil is There's also 0mg of cholesterol. Nutrition Facts: https:…

>> There's three fats in Beyond Meat burgers, Expeller-Pressed Canola Oil, Refined Coconut Oil, and Cocoa Butter

If I understand correctly, coconut oil is the worse kind of fat you can consume. Is that incorrect?

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#77

Post by kbenson »

ziddoap wrote: post #35
dashundchen wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree that it's not as healthy as eating less processed plant based foods, however I don't think anyone is going to Burger King or White Castle expecting that. But are these plant burgers actually claiming or marketing themselves as healthy? The only places I have seen them served are in restaurants and bars alongside burgers and unhealthy bar food - which I think you might be surprised is a big chunk of many people'…

> But are these plant burgers actually claiming or marketing themselves as healthy? Yes. A snippet from the top paragraph of Beyond Meat's Product Page: "Imagine your favorite meaty dishes[...]while being better for you [...]"[1] [1] https://www.beyondmeat.com/products/ Edit: Beyond Meat is not claiming they are healthy , just that they are healthier . Edit 2: Looking farther, they also state that they are "IMPROVING…

Healthier is not the same as healthy. Better for you is not the same as good for you.

Eating a burger with less cheese is better for you and healthier, all other things equal, but very well may still not be good for you or a healthy choice overall compared to some other food entirely.

In the end, if the faux-burger is healthier for you than the real one, it's a net positive to switch to it if you eat the same amount. There are plenty of things that can be said about psychological effects, and causing people to eat more, but I think the most important thing I think to say about those aspects at this point is "we don't know, so it's not appropriate to apply too much weight to those considerations."

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#78

Post by Falling3 »

bobby358 wrote: post #62
Falling3 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you honestly believe the harming/killing of animals and plants are equivalent, come by my place later. I've got some hedges in my front yard and a dog. I'll get out the hedge clippers and we can demonstrate there's no real difference between cutting parts off of a bush and a mammal.

All that demonstrates is that mammals can recognize each other’s suffering. It’s entirely possible that when a plant is killed, there is also suffering, but it’s so foreign to us we can’t recognize it.

Sure, it's _possible_. But we absolutely no evidence that it happens based on what we know (albeit very little) about the subject. And we have good reasons to believe it's not happening: plants lack the brain structures and processing power believed to be required, no evolutionary advantage, lack of motility.

Philosophically, it fails as an Appeal to Ignorance. Practically, it fails for a few reasons. Many of the plants we consume don't need to be killed and have evolved to expect and depend on our consumption of them. Additionally, the animals we eat need to eat plants. So anyone with a genuine concern for the suffering of plants would immediately forego the consumption of animal products.

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#79

Post by mythrwy »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #72
mythrwy wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be interested in seeing a source for that less than 3% number. However most cattle are certainly finished on grain without a doubt. Grain that could possibly put to better uses (or not grown and save the fuel and water).

TFA said it: "America gets 97 percent of its beef from feedlots." Here's another one: https://www.reference.com/pets-animals/cows-eat-a677816334f1...

So they go through the feedlots but most cattle are not in the feedlot at once (feedlots are a smaller part of the time a cow is alive, some months only).

The largest number of cattle, currently, if you counted them all up, are still on pasture.

Not that this detracts from your point, mostly a minor semantic quibble.

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#80

Post by sehugg »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #76
travelton wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did you land at 30% canola oil? There's three fats in Beyond Meat burgers, Expeller-Pressed Canola Oil, Refined Coconut Oil, and Cocoa Butter. The total fat content is 18g per serving. Each serving is 113g total. That's 15% total fat content per serving. We don't know the canola, coconut, or cocoa butter ratio, but we can at least assume total canola oil is There's also 0mg of cholesterol. Nutrition Facts: https:…

>> There's three fats in Beyond Meat burgers, Expeller-Pressed Canola Oil, Refined Coconut Oil, and Cocoa Butter If I understand correctly, coconut oil is the worse kind of fat you can consume. Is that incorrect?

Not the worst, but probably not the best either: https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/coconut-oil
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