Japan approves first human-animal embryo experiments • Hacker News Board

Re: Japan approves first human-animal embryo experiments

#71

Post by rflrob » Fri, Jul 26, 2019, 4:49 PM UTC

dmonitor wrote: post #54

sampo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ignoring your morals If those morals say people should die instead of getting the organ transplants they need, maybe we are better off ignoring such morals.

The moral is that embryos deserve the same rights as people, so you’re really just killing one person to save another

But do rats (or other non-human animals) with human organs deserve the same rights as humans? I don't think that the human pancreas is the source of our innate "human-ness" that gives us distinct moral standing from non-human animals. You can certainly wonder whether there is any such thing that gives humans a special standing, but if you also eat pork, you have a tricky row to hoe in that argument.

Re: Japan approves first human-animal embryo experiments

#72

Post by fjcp » Fri, Jul 26, 2019, 4:50 PM UTC

Bayart wrote: post #69

fjcp wrote: post #63

When I heard Alex Jones on Joe Rogan saying that there was human-animal experiments being made I thought he was exaggerating. In my opinion this kind of research crosses some ethical lines that shouldn't be crossed. If one considers an embryo as an independent life, what species the embryo belongs to? Wouldn't be the ones in this experiment half humans with human rights? After all, the scientist doesn't know all, and…

Well, if you're allowing abortion on the basis that an embryo isn't human life, you're by extension allowing this.

Right, that's what I am saying. If even that discussion isn't settled yet, we should be more careful and wait before mixing humans and animals.

Re: Japan approves first human-animal embryo experiments

#73

Post by ddingus » Fri, Jul 26, 2019, 4:50 PM UTC

dmonitor wrote: post #54

sampo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ignoring your morals If those morals say people should die instead of getting the organ transplants they need, maybe we are better off ignoring such morals.

The moral is that embryos deserve the same rights as people, so you’re really just killing one person to save another

No it is not.

Viability matters here. I realize you see that differently. Realize others will ALWAYS differ on this. ALWAYS.

Frankly, this will absolutely be done. There probably will be wars over it too.

And it still will be done.

And then it will be done sans an embryo, using stems.

Right now, powerful, wealthy people are paying full attention. The one thing they cannot buy will end up for sale. More time.

Buckle up. It is going to get super ugly.

Re: Japan approves first human-animal embryo experiments

#74

Post by enraged_camel » Fri, Jul 26, 2019, 4:52 PM UTC

lewaldman wrote: post #35

Why all comments are being down-voted? (Personally... I think this tech is amazing and I can't wait for it to be available worldwide!)

Mods need to look into this trend and give us a report.

Re: Japan approves first human-animal embryo experiments

#75

Post by noir_lord » Fri, Jul 26, 2019, 4:52 PM UTC

algorias wrote: post #5

htor wrote: post #2

grow human organs inside rats and? how does that work? i don't understand. meanwhile we are entering the sixt mass extinction event caused by a massive climate change. what good is this technology when you have failing crops, extreme weather, no electricity and mass immigration at your doorstep?

Presumably, the eventual goal is to grow full-sized organs inside some larger animal. Then the organ can be harvested and transplanted to a human who needs it. Per my understanding, medicine does a lot of work with rats because they're cheap and easy to work with, so any new technology of this type would be tried on rats first. By the way, my neutral explanation above doesn't mean that I approve of doing such things.…

I'm not remotely torn about it, taken to the finish, it's a human organ with my dna grown in a pig and then transplanted into me.

We already eat bacon and use large mammal heart valves in surgery.

I mean we wear the skin of cows, grease things with their rendered fat and use them for glue.

This seems like a strange point to be torn on.

Re: Japan approves first human-animal embryo experiments

#76

Post by manigandham » Fri, Jul 26, 2019, 4:54 PM UTC

bcrosby95 wrote: post #12

rc_kas wrote: post #6

Yeah America has all the moral debates about genetics and experiments with embryos. But the bottom line is other countries are going to move forward no matter what America does.

While I disagree with the US's stance, ignoring your morals because other countries are doing something would be a race to the bottom.

Morals are subjective and personal. A country has ethics, but those are also a collective representation and open to change.

When it comes to biological sciences, we are on the forefront of some very big questions that do need consideration, especially because other populations (in advanced first-world countries) are deciding to move forward.

Re: Japan approves first human-animal embryo experiments

#77

Post by hombre_fatal » Fri, Jul 26, 2019, 4:55 PM UTC

thebooktocome wrote: post #32

gridlockd wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He didn't assume that. Also, you're making the internet a worse place by accusing him of doing that. You should feel bad.

It's a logical consequence of the statement that America has all the ethical debates on genetics.

Pretty sure they meant "all these debates." Doubt they think USA has the only debates in the world.

As in, "you're having all these debates about how to defend your front door but you don't even have a lock on your back door."

Re: Japan approves first human-animal embryo experiments

#78

Post by jtbayly » Fri, Jul 26, 2019, 4:55 PM UTC

bluecalm wrote: post #60

bcrosby95 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I disagree with the US's stance, ignoring your morals because other countries are doing something would be a race to the bottom.

If significant % of the population doesn't think it's problematic it should be allowed as long as it doesn't influence lives of the other part. You can easily opt out of any stem cells based research or treatment, we can make it not state funded. Opposing that is the kind of self-righteous aggressive morality I despise. It's the same with abortion: about half the population thinks it's ok to let a woman decide. It do…

Just one example of how abortion affects everybody: Sex selective abortions leave millions without somebody to marry and live with.

Re: Japan approves first human-animal embryo experiments

#79

Post by wukerplank » Fri, Jul 26, 2019, 4:56 PM UTC

This will be for the 1% not the people. Should it become more widely used: With our overcrowded planet, people successfully refusing to die will open new can of worms.

Re: Japan approves first human-animal embryo experiments

#80

Post by homonculus1 » Fri, Jul 26, 2019, 4:57 PM UTC

bluecalm wrote: post #60

bcrosby95 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I disagree with the US's stance, ignoring your morals because other countries are doing something would be a race to the bottom.

If significant % of the population doesn't think it's problematic it should be allowed as long as it doesn't influence lives of the other part. You can easily opt out of any stem cells based research or treatment, we can make it not state funded. Opposing that is the kind of self-righteous aggressive morality I despise. It's the same with abortion: about half the population thinks it's ok to let a woman decide. It do…

To phrase this more succinctly, you're saying that society should never intercede on behalf of the victims of moral injustice as long as the perpetrators are sufficiently numerous.

I'm sure you would disagree, of course, because you probably only see this principle applying to certain moral issues--namely, the ones you've already carved out as exceptions because you don't perceive them as injustices.