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Rising health insurance deductibles fuel middle-class anger and resentment

latimes.com

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Re: Rising health insurance deductibles fuel middle-class anger and resentment

#71

Post by AnimalMuppet »

1PlayerOne wrote: post #61
mywittyname wrote: post #47

I doubt the people in this article are middle class. Only one income is mentioned, but $40k for a family of three is below the definition of middle class for most of the USA. Lots of people who think they are middle class are really poor. We need a Federal expansion of Medicaid to be available to everyone with pricing based on income. Once wealthier people start moving over to it, the private insurance racket will co…

Poor whites think government is the problem. Wealthy people have private insurance from their employers. We are stuck with the current system, there is no impetus for change. Just a lot of stupid coming out of the white house. Sad!

Off topic, but... when you end your posts with "Sad!" like that, you sound just like a Trump tweet. Given your content, you probably don't want that (unless you're trying to parody Trump, and I didn't notice).

Re: Rising health insurance deductibles fuel middle-class anger and resentment

#72

Post by AnimalMuppet »

mattmcknight wrote: post #50

So much of the existing system could be simplified if providers were required to charge every customer the same price. It would be dead simple to implement- add to the Medicare regulations that if you accept Medicare, you can't charge any customer more than you charge Medicare. The massive subsidy that the privately insured provided to Medicare and Medicaid would be diminished so those prices would rise somewhat, but…

That would probably bankrupt Medicare.

Now, I'm not in favor of Medicare paying less than cost. It's a dishonest hidden subsidy. But be careful of how you fix it...

Re: Rising health insurance deductibles fuel middle-class anger and resentment

#73

Post by AnimalMuppet »

MichaelApproved wrote: post #34
Ididntdothis wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With employer based insurance and lack of price transparency there is almost nothing the patient can do to reduce costs. You can’t get any upfront pricing, it’s hard to evaluate whether a test is needed, you can’t change insurance. You are giving the patient responsibility for something they have almost no chance to understand.

On top of that, it's impossible to shop around for some of the biggest purchases. Broke your leg, now what? Start calling local hospitals to see who offers the best price? It's impossible to be an educated consumer with healthcare. Impossible.

Worse: One hospital charges less. Will I get equally good care there? Or is their rate of complications higher? Will I suffer consequences down the road, maybe for the rest of my life? Do I really want the less expensive hospital in that case? How much money is a lower chance of complications worth?

Re: Rising health insurance deductibles fuel middle-class anger and resentment

#74

Post by TYPE_FASTER »

rb808 wrote: post #5

I have a high deducible plan and think its a good idea that everyone gets one. It means you're much more aware of costs and much more careful. One of the reasons the total US healthcare bill is so high is that many/most people get lots of unnecessary tests, lots of marginally useful procedures and lots of expensive emergency work instead of trying to be healthy in the first place. Finally having people feel the sting…

Fear of bankruptcy shouldn't be a motivator for staying healthy.

Re: Rising health insurance deductibles fuel middle-class anger and resentment

#75

Post by TYPE_FASTER »

I would like to know why, in the past ~20yrs, health insurance premium costs have nearly quadrupled (https://www.kff.org/report-section/2018-employer-health-bene...).

I don't understand the push for price lists. Forecasting is hard enough with software, I can't imagine what it's like for medical procedures where every person is different. Hospitals treat patients regardless of ability to pay, and attempt to recoup losses for patients who can't pay. Why shop around on price if it's unpredictable due to the nature of the system, shopping around on quality of care would seem more important to me.

Re: Rising health insurance deductibles fuel middle-class anger and resentment

#76

Post by mattmcknight »

MichaelApproved wrote: post #49
mattmcknight wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Emergency care is a small fraction of health care costs.

Putting aside emergency care, how can you tell what is and isn't medically necessary, as OP suggested patients do? How do patients know what something should and shouldn't cost?

How do you tell what car repairs are necessary? The cost should be baselined by Medicare.

Re: Rising health insurance deductibles fuel middle-class anger and resentment

#77

Post by 1PlayerOne »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #71
1PlayerOne wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poor whites think government is the problem. Wealthy people have private insurance from their employers. We are stuck with the current system, there is no impetus for change. Just a lot of stupid coming out of the white house. Sad!

Off topic, but... when you end your posts with "Sad!" like that, you sound just like a Trump tweet. Given your content, you probably don't want that (unless you're trying to parody Trump, and I didn't notice).

I don't know about you, but I see Trump tweets everywhere; the very stable genius has made a YUGE impact on everyday discourse.

Re: Rising health insurance deductibles fuel middle-class anger and resentment

#78

Post by MichaelApproved »

mattmcknight wrote: post #76
MichaelApproved wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting aside emergency care, how can you tell what is and isn't medically necessary, as OP suggested patients do? How do patients know what something should and shouldn't cost?

How do you tell what car repairs are necessary? The cost should be baselined by Medicare.

I can't tell what car repairs are necessary. I trust my mechanic with years of education and experience to tell me what needs to be done.

Re: Rising health insurance deductibles fuel middle-class anger and resentment

#79

Post by mises »

1PlayerOne wrote: post #68
mises wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More employers ought to do this, for sure. If I'm a young, healthy, twenty-six-year-old man, I almost certainly don't need medical care. If I've got a good job, I can essentially self-insure. I might want to keep actual insurance , i.e. high-deductible protection for catastrophic events, but nothing more.

Think about the consequence for society as a whole if everyone did what you did.

1. I act in the interests of society, rather than my own. It's the issue of the prisoners' dilemma; I'm not going to be the sucker.

2. I honestly don't know what you mean here. I will almost certainly not draw much in the way of health expenses; this is exactly the way insurance is supposed to work. What is wrong with not billing every thing to insurance and not paying for the privilege? If every one did this, consumers would be price-sensitive and costs would drop.

Re: Rising health insurance deductibles fuel middle-class anger and resentment

#80

Post by mises »

mAEStro-paNDa wrote: post #70
mises wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> single-payer system Why could I not buy my own insurance? Or why can't I self-insure? If I want to pay for the best, I ought to be able to buy it (again, if I will pay). There's a difference between actual single-payer (in which there is a single entity which pays , the government) and a government health-care plan. For which are you advocating?

>For which are you advocating? A single-payer system, as I said. >Why could I not buy my own insurance? Or why can't I self-insure? These are leading questions. There exists healthcare systems that are a hybrid of single-payer/private insurance.

These are not leading questions. "Single payer" definitionally means there is a single entity which pays, meaning no insurance or private pay. You're using it like it means a government plan; it doesn't. The reason I'm asking is because some politicians are crazy enough to want to prohibit any thing but a government plan, and I don't know where you fall.
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